The Accurate Reloading Forums
Doesn't the Hornady slogan include "deadly" and "dependable"?
10 September 2015, 18:38
larryshoresDoesn't the Hornady slogan include "deadly" and "dependable"?
Please see the pics below. Both bullets recovered from a tuskless cow.
One is a Barnes banded solid . It was shot into the back of a fallen tuskless and was driven several feet into the head with a 500NE.
The second was taken from the same tuskless. This was shot into the cows head from just a few feet away. It was recovered in the jaw. This is a Hornady DGS shot out of a 450 Ackley.
I would hate to have to save my life with a DGS on a bull after seeing this.
10 September 2015, 18:42
BiebsYou leave my Steve Hornady alone!!! :-)
PS: The operative word is DEAD cow.
10 September 2015, 18:50
larryshoresYup Jon. The 500 NE and the Barnes bullets saw to that.
10 September 2015, 18:55
shootawayA PH once told me that the jaw has the toughest bone in a buff's body.I shot a buff behind the hear with a 550gr Woodleigh soft from my Lott and it stopped right there and there was little left of it.The buff-which was laying down when it took the shot never got up.At least you can be assured that the ele's head took all of the bullets energy from the 450.
10 September 2015, 18:56
poprivitOne from a 500 and one from a 450, and different shot placements don't make for a test or comparison.
I drove a Hornady from my 458 Lott through most of a Cape buffalo, and the bullet could have been reloaded again. What did my shot prove? Other than one dead buffalo, not much.
10 September 2015, 19:26
shootawayOne thing that could be useful to keep in mind is that all those ele that dropped to bullets in the past 100 years or so and for that reason give us the confidence to hunt ele today,were round nose jacketed metal type.
10 September 2015, 21:00
Neil-PHquote:
One from a 500 and one from a 450, and different shot placements don't make for a test or comparison.I drove a Hornady from my 458 Lott through most of a Cape buffalo, and the bullet could have been reloaded again. What did my shot prove? Other than one dead buffalo, not much.
What did it prove?
It works !!!
10 September 2015, 21:45
Todd WilliamsLarry, these are the two CEBs recovered from my last tuskless cow. 750gr 577NE.
The one one the left was recovered from the cow's jaw, just as your DGS was. The one on the right was recovered along the spine, just in front of the tail after a frontal brain shot.
Big difference in the two bullets, your's and mine, that were stopped by the jaw!
10 September 2015, 22:05
tomahawkerI have to say I was disappointed with hornadys on a buff I shot last fall. I had heard about this a few years ago and blew it off but seeing is believing...or disbelieving.
10 September 2015, 22:23
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Larry, these are the two CEBs recovered from my last tuskless cow. 750gr 577NE.
The one one the left was recovered from the cow's jaw, just as your DGS was. The one on the right was recovered along the spine, just in front of the tail after a frontal brain shot.
Big difference in the two bullets, your's and mine, that were stopped by the jaw!
yeah one was 500 or 450 grain and yours was a 750 grain
10 September 2015, 22:30
465H&HF.Y.I., The jaw bode is one of the least dense bones in an animals body. They are mostly hollow and provide little resistance to a bullet. Now the teeth particularly the molars are the most dense and hardest bones. When an animal is cremated, the most likely bone to survive are the molars.
465H&H
10 September 2015, 22:42
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
F.Y.I., The jaw bode is one of the least dense bones in an animals body. They are mostly hollow and provide little resistance to a bullet. Now the teeth particularly the molars are the most dense and hardest bones. When an animal is cremated, the most likely bone to survive are the molars.
465H&H
Look at the evidence above and you will see that the jawbone is the strongest-stop making things up.
10 September 2015, 22:51
ted thornLead core solid vs monometal
Two different beast
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10 September 2015, 23:06
MJinesquote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
quote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
F.Y.I., The jaw bode is one of the least dense bones in an animals body. They are mostly hollow and provide little resistance to a bullet. Now the teeth particularly the molars are the most dense and hardest bones. When an animal is cremated, the most likely bone to survive are the molars.
465H&H
Look at the evidence above and you will see that the jawbone is the strongest-stop making things up.
George, how many elephant have you shot? Just trying to establish your credibility to comment.
Mike
10 September 2015, 23:10
shootawayquote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
quote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
F.Y.I., The jaw bode is one of the least dense bones in an animals body. They are mostly hollow and provide little resistance to a bullet. Now the teeth particularly the molars are the most dense and hardest bones. When an animal is cremated, the most likely bone to survive are the molars.
465H&H
Look at the evidence above and you will see that the jawbone is the strongest-stop making things up.
George, how many elephant have you shot? Just trying to establish your credibility to comment.
Are you scared I might know something you don't?
10 September 2015, 23:14
MJinesquote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
quote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
F.Y.I., The jaw bode is one of the least dense bones in an animals body. They are mostly hollow and provide little resistance to a bullet. Now the teeth particularly the molars are the most dense and hardest bones. When an animal is cremated, the most likely bone to survive are the molars.
465H&H
Look at the evidence above and you will see that the jawbone is the strongest-stop making things up.
George, how many elephant have you shot? Just trying to establish your credibility to comment.
Are you scared I might know something you don't?
Not in the least.
Mike
11 September 2015, 04:13
Larry SellersSimply shoot just Barnes and CEB bullets and you won't have to worry about having results like those posted by Mr. Shores. And if you shoot the above bullets from an R8 Blaser you are guaranteed even better results.
Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser
11 September 2015, 04:28
Matt Grahamquote:
Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Simply shoot just Barnes and CEB bullets and you won't have to worry about having results like those posted by Mr. Shores. And if you shoot the above bullets from an R8 Blaser you are guaranteed even better results.
Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser
You can probably add Woodleigh Hydro, Northfork CUP?
11 September 2015, 04:59
boarkillerBarnes solids ( and xxx ) and never any slightest problems.
Yes, others perform well enough, but in the moment of truth? " BARNES "
" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...
Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”
11 September 2015, 05:03
Dutch44I love the CEB 13's in my .450 Rigby. Feed and perform flawlessly. Too bad they don't make them in .463 for the .475 No. 2 (unless, of course, you buy in quantity....big quantity). The Woodleigh solids, in that caliber, have proven themselves to me.
I'm so tempted, Mike, but I can't kick a dumb dog no matter how much fun!!!
11 September 2015, 07:04
lavacaWhile I believe it creates issues with respect to same point of impact with softs and solids, I have begun to favor mono metal solids. The cored "solids" can deform and if they do they will divert.
Ideally, your softs and solids will be near same point of impact at the anticipated ranges and in my limited experience, with .45 caliber, that's not much of a problem. I suspect that is because we are talking 100 yard max range and because the softs and solids are both round nosed (or flat or cupped).
When you step down to a .416 (and I suspect the problem would also exist in a .375) the difference between a spire point soft and a round nosed or flat tipped solid could well affect your point of impact at 100 and 200 yards. (I'm in the same group out to 50 yards, but at 100 and especially at 200, the solids begin to hit significantly lower than the softs in my .416).
This is likely to only be an issue when you are using a solid on something small and not close. I always check zeros for softs and solids at various ranges, but it could save you some heartache.
While figuring out your different point of impact between your softs and solids at 100 and 200 yards may be tedious, when you choose to use a solid on something small at a distance, it could spell the difference between success and a miss.
With my .416, sighted dead on at 100 with Swift A-Frames: It will put the softs and solids in the same hole at 50 yards. At 100, the solids are 1 inch low. I can't explain it, but it's true. I haven't shot the solids at 200 and probably won't get the opportunity to before I leave in a couple of weeks. But I'm going to be reticent to take a shot beyond 100 yards with solids.
11 September 2015, 07:36
Sean Russellquote:
Originally posted by lavaca:
While I believe it creates issues with respect to same point of impact with softs and solids, I have begun to favor mono metal solids. The cored "solids" can deform and if they do they will divert.
Ideally, your softs and solids will be near same point of impact at the anticipated ranges and in my limited experience, with .45 caliber, that's not much of a problem. I suspect that is because we are talking 100 yard max range and because the softs and solids are both round nosed (or flat or cupped).
When you step down to a .416 (and I suspect the problem would also exist in a .375) the difference between a spire point soft and a round nosed or flat tipped solid could well affect your point of impact at 100 and 200 yards. (I'm in the same group out to 50 yards, but at 100 and especially at 200, the solids begin to hit significantly lower than the softs in my .416).
This is likely to only be an issue when you are using a solid on something small and not close. I always check zeros for softs and solids at various ranges, but it could save you some heartache.
While figuring out your different point of impact between your softs and solids at 100 and 200 yards may be tedious, when you choose to use a solid on something small at a distance, it could spell the difference between success and a miss.
With my .416, sighted dead on at 100 with Swift A-Frames: It will put the softs and solids in the same hole at 50 yards. At 100, the solids are 1 inch low. I can't explain it, but it's true. I haven't shot the solids at 200 and probably won't get the opportunity to before I leave in a couple of weeks. But I'm going to be reticent to take a shot beyond 100 yards with solids.
How often do you need solids at 100yds and up? I suppose on a follow top shot, but even then aren't 95% of those closer than 100yds?
I had my solids and Noncons in the same hole at 50 yds then check sight-in at longer ranges with the Non-con-
I admit I have only had one safari, but it worked on buff, elephant and lion. Small sample, good plan i thought.
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11 September 2015, 08:58
Skylinequote:
Originally posted by boarkiller:
Barnes solids ( and xxx ) and never any slightest problems.
Yes, others perform well enough, but in the moment of truth? " BARNES "
Fill me in BK...... thought you south of the 49th cannot use Barnes solids. I probably have been in the bush to long and missed something on here.
CEB's......... outstanding!
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11 September 2015, 12:34
ManyatheloI have seen a Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer do that on an elephant skull and a 300grain Winchester factory load do the same on a Hippo skull. Both shot out of a 375 H&H
Monolithics are in a different league but if you are comparing apples with apples the Hornady solids are as good as you get in a "traditional" solid. With a 458 Lott I have on occasion had them exit out the other side of the head from a side on brain shot on a Botswana Elephant Bull.
11 September 2015, 13:49
SaeedGentlemen,
If you shoot enough, you will come across bullet performance that is not 100% to your satisfaction.
There is no two ways about it.
But, you will get far less undesirable performance with bullets made from one material - copper or brass - rather than ones that have lead in them.
11 September 2015, 17:28
Dutch44I meant to say .483 and not 463.
11 September 2015, 17:29
Dutch44Saeed is 100% correct.
11 September 2015, 17:42
boarkillerquote:
Originally posted by Skyline:
quote:
Originally posted by boarkiller:
Barnes solids ( and xxx ) and never any slightest problems.
Yes, others perform well enough, but in the moment of truth? " BARNES "
Fill me in BK...... thought you south of the 49th cannot use Barnes solids. I probably have been in the bush to long and missed something on here.
CEB's......... outstanding!
Skyline, I was talking about Africa and elephant hunting as the topic was about that
Here I use xxx, solids of course only in Africa
" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...
Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”
11 September 2015, 18:53
MacD37quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
quote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
F.Y.I., The jaw bode is one of the least dense bones in an animals body. They are mostly hollow and provide little resistance to a bullet. Now the teeth particularly the molars are the most dense and hardest bones. When an animal is cremated, the most likely bone to survive are the molars.
465H&H
Look at the evidence above and you will see that the jawbone is the strongest-stop making things up.
Shooter, if you will remember the very large molar is in the jaw bone! Even if the jaw bone was made of molding clay, the molar is still the hardest component of that jaw bone and if the bullet found in the jaw bone even clipped the molar the best bullet on the market will be damaged! 465H&H is not making anything up!
None of this is to say Todd's or Larry's bullet is not better than the Hornady, I'm sure it is much stronger, but the Hornady shown may have hit the molar and the other one not. So the two examples actually prove nothing new. The jacketed solids, no matter who made them have all through history been subject to bradding and bending.
Now that most Mono-metal solids are properly made they are the best you can get today! Though the MONOs are not exempt from damage they are far less susceptible to damage than any jacketed solid!
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DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982
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Please see the pics below. Both bullets recovered from a tuskless cow.