You will not stop Lion hunting but maybe the import.

These pricks used to exhibit at SCI. Not sure if they still do.

"Two countries have successful models—Kenya stopped trophy hunting in 1977, and Botswana stopped last year," says Kent. "So it’s happened and those countries have done very well. We’re hoping to use those to establish sustainable tourism in other parts as well."

What a bunch of bullshit that statement is. Doesn't this dumbass know Kenya has virtually no wildlife left?

Just think...if SCI, TAHOA, and TPHA had adopted the "Definition of a huntable male lion"...they would have the worlds leading lion scientists on board validating hunting as the best sustainable conservation method.

Instead...we have them against us.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Just think...if SCI, TAHOA, and TPHA had adopted the "Definition of a huntable male lion"...they would have the worlds leading lion scientists on board validating hunting as the best sustainable conservation method.

Instead...we have them against us.

When has SCI EVER been for the good of ordinary hunters??

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Just think...if SCI, TAHOA, and TPHA had adopted the "Definition of a huntable male lion"...they would have the worlds leading lion scientists on board validating hunting as the best sustainable conservation method.

Instead...we have them against us.

When has SCI EVER been for the good of ordinary hunters??

Saeed,
I have to agree with your sentiment 100%.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Just think...if SCI, TAHOA, and TPHA had adopted the "Definition of a huntable male lion"...they would have the worlds leading lion scientists on board validating hunting as the best sustainable conservation method.

Instead...we have them against us.

Do the 'world's leading lion scientists' actually, deliberately, ignore 'best conservation methods'. That sounds rather unprofessional.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Just think...if SCI, TAHOA, and TPHA had adopted the "Definition of a huntable male lion"...they would have the worlds leading lion scientists on board validating hunting as the best sustainable conservation method.

Instead...we have them against us.

Do the 'world's leading lion scientists' actually, deliberately, ignore 'best conservation methods'. That sounds rather unprofessional.

No Matt...they don't. They saw an industry ripe with corruption (both private and governmental) and unwilling to endorse best practice policy and abandoned it as the best conservation method.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
You will not stop Lion hunting but maybe the import.

CITES is supposed to be the organization looking after animals.

But, the West, in their infinite stupidity, think they know better, and doing their best to harm animals through their PC bend over backward politics!

And if anyone was hoping - like I did - that anything good will ever come out of SCI, keep on dreaming.

In fact, the sooner we get rid of this utterly silly organization claiming it represents us, and setup something that actually does, we have had it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
You will not stop Lion hunting but maybe the import.

CITES is supposed to be the organization looking after animals.

Europe is following the same route now as US with ignoring CITES and making their own plan.

No need for CITES anymore when our gov. knows best anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
You will not stop Lion hunting but maybe the import.

CITES is supposed to be the organization looking after animals.

Europe is following the same route now as US with ignoring CITES and making their own plan.

No need for CITES anymore when our gov. knows best anyway.

The only "best" the government knows is how to stay in power, at any cost!

I do know that facts confuse these twats, maybe someone could forward this them.

http://www.fws.gov/endangered/about/vp-151-2014.html

Having served in the Army with Joss and his half brother this news saddens me but does not come as a surprise. Poor show.

One thing for sure...these guys will be joined by/aided by the Clinton Foundation...the driving force behind the ivory import ban. If Hillary Clinton is elected POTUS...American citizens will loose the ability to hunt Africa...at least in the sense we have always known it. That will end 50-60% of revenue to the safari industry and kill it. Hunting blocks will become goat and maize farms. The big 5 will live only in a few parks.

Just food for thought for everyone but even if you don't live in "the States" the election of Hillary as POTUS...due to the power and influence of the Clinton Foundation and Chelsea's desire to end Africa hunting...will be the end of African wildlife as we know it.

Hunter's money vs. photos safari's money. I won't get into that debate. But one fact can't be debated: hunters supply villages with meat, photographers do not. Therefore villagers sill still poach (or poach more) if there is no hunting.
Cal

As far as hunting wild game in Africa is concerned it doesn't matter who is president of the United States, or any other country for that matter.

Population growth has been, is and will continue to be the biggest threat to habitat and wildlife in Africa. And I don't hear anyone coming up with a solution to that so we're screwed.

Yup for the most part. The ivory ban has had a massive negative impact.

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
As far as hunting wild game in Africa is concerned it doesn't matter who is president of the United States,

Milo,
You are dead wrong about that! A strong American economy with lots of American dollars being spent on African Hunting does help the industry stay strong and perpetuate what we have left.

As Larry correctly states above the US ivory import ban has also been devastating. The ivory band comes directly from the Whitehouse with a strong dose of support from a hopeful new inhabitant.

PS: I don't want to let present politics take the focus off of the original intent of this thread however and that was to point out how the industry as a whole missed a golden opportunity to weld the hunting community and the scientific community together in a bond that would have prevented travasties like the Cecil debacle (which you see used in the article above) and given the industry strong conservation credibility.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
As far as hunting wild game in Africa is concerned it doesn't matter who is president of the United States,

Milo,
You are dead wrong about that! A strong American economy with lots of American dollars being spent on African Hunting does help the industry stay strong and perpetuate what we have left.

As Larry correctly states above the US ivory import ban has also been devastating. The ivory band comes directly from the Whitehouse with a strong dose of support from a hopeful new inhabitant.

Lane, I respect your views and your work.

But to think the US economy or political landscape is a bigger fundamental influence on habitat and wildlife pressure than the population trend is fantasy. It's not just the increase of poaching for bush meat or financial gain. The greater the population, the more land needs handing to cronies and tribal factions to satisfy local political realities, the more land needs exploiting for food or natural resources, etc, etc, etc.

If the census trends remain anywhere near the current curve it won't matter what antis say or what action is taken by non-African politicians. Population growth is by far the most destructive influence, has no known solution bar plague or asteroid strike and will end things for us regarding hunting wild animals in Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
As far as hunting wild game in Africa is concerned it doesn't matter who is president of the United States,

Milo,
You are dead wrong about that! A strong American economy with lots of American dollars being spent on African Hunting does help the industry stay strong and perpetuate what we have left.

As Larry correctly states above the US ivory import ban has also been devastating. The ivory band comes directly from the Whitehouse with a strong dose of support from a hopeful new inhabitant.

Lane, I respect your views and your work.

But to think the US economy or political landscape is a bigger fundamental influence on habitat and wildlife pressure than the population trend is fantasy. It's not just the increase of poaching for bush meat or financial gain. The greater the population, the more land needs handing to cronies and tribal factions to satisfy local political realities, the more land needs exploiting for food or natural resources, etc, etc, etc.

If the census trends remain anywhere near the current curve it won't matter what antis say or what action is taken by non-African politicians. Population growth is by far the most destructive influence, has no known solution bar plague or asteroid strike and will end things for us regarding hunting wild animals in Africa.

Milo,
I am in full agreement with all you say above. And agree it is the bigger issue.

My point however is that you were wrong to say that the POTUS has no direct influence on African hunting...especially in the near future...as he has and the influence will continue.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
As far as hunting wild game in Africa is concerned it doesn't matter who is president of the United States,

A strong American economy with lots of American dollars being spent on African Hunting does help the industry stay strong and perpetuate what we have left.
.

Absolutely right Sir. The American hunter makes up the gross of the visiting hunters market. If this market is harmed , all African hunting , and hence wildlife areas supported by hunting , will inevitably suffer. The problem is that it wont take much for the European union to follow suite if the States takes the lead.

I get e-mail promotions from A&K almost every week....they WANT OUR BUSINESS....because they don't know I also hunt!!
The best way to get at these people is to write a direct letter to Geoffrey Kent, CEO and let him know that all of us are also his clients on his cruises and various other venues and if he doesn't understand hunting and its benefits he better wake up because he has just AWAKENED the BEAST....and the BEAST is US!! Hammer Him Quickly but Professionally...I will!!
All you have to do is Google the company and get the Corporate Address and fire off a letter to the CEO....providing the direct benefits of hunting, ie money on the ground, jobs for tribal members, meat back to tribes, hunters eliminating the marauders and pay for it....consequently no poaching by tribal members...year around anti poaching patrols by outfitters....and the additional benefits of Outfitter/Client provided medical centers and schools with volunteer Docs/Dentists, nurses and teachers....does he want that to stop??
We need to get the BIG organizations start to pump this for all it is worth to gain our positive place in conservation we deserve....we have hidden it for too long now!!

Cheers,

Since when does a prissy travel agent dictate wildlife policy to an entire continent?