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| one of us |
This was actually my first choice for my son since I have one of my own. Giving mine up was not an option and there just wasn't one to be found in my area so we ended up going with the 7mm08. | |||
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| One of Us |
I still remember shooting my first "real" rifle at age 14, it was a .308 hunting rifle. The scariest part was it was so LOUD and I had no experience with what the recoil would feel like. We forget how voilent a rifle seems to those who have never shot one. If you can swing two rifles I'd suggest a .223 and a .308. Lots of cheap ammo and shooting .223 is always fun and a great step up into "real" rifles. You can build your confidence up with the .223 and then he will be itching to shoot the .308. | |||
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When my sonas 12 I started him with a lightweight 270, he had a hard time handling aheavier rifle. I would NOT do it again, he managed to gow into it, but I would have absolutely gone to a shortactioin cartridge either s 7-08 or 308. In my opinion, very few kids(or adults for that matter) are good enough shots to take advantage of the flatter trajectory of the 270 and the recoil is a big negative. I have a 260 and it's great, but you must handload. IMHO, the 270 is highly overrated, I find recoil is substantial for the hitting power, I ended up loading it down for him, which made it a 7-08 anyway. Spare your son's shoulder, get him 7-08 or 308. | |||
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The 308 Win is a great choice, hard to argue. I do think Ann has made some valid points. The managed recoil ammo is getting pretty popular as "starter ammo". It works. It makes shooting a 308WIN even easier. But if you're gonna plan on using the managed recoil stuff please note. The bullet grain weight and velocities for the 308WIN and 30-06 SPG are EXACTLY THE SAME! 125grns 2660fps. This means in a heavier 30-06 rifle these rounds recoil even less. If he can handle toting a heavier gun the 30-06 is not a bad starter rifle with the managed recoil rounds. Plus it will take quite awhile to grow out of. Probably be buying his own guns by the time he does. | |||
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If he hunts with reduced recoil 308 ammo in Africa I would recommend the Fderal load as it used a 170 gr bullet, Remington uses a 125 gr bullet as noted in the previous post. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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| One of Us |
Please don't take my post as a recommendation to use the managed recoil stuff in Africa. That wasn't my intention. I suggest practice with the managed recoil stuff and hunt with full power loads. It's supposed to have very close to the same POI as the full power stuff. You don't notice recoil the same way in the excitement of a hunt. | |||
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| One of Us |
I started my son with model 70 compact in 7mm08. Easy to carry, low recoil. | |||
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| one of us |
I would get a youth rifle for the short LOP. Also I would want a rifle with a safety thats three position. I would not get a Remington no matter what. My first choice would be the Winchester Compact mentioned above but I would select the 308 as there are far more choices of ammo. Add a Decelerator pad and insist on double ear protection. Join the NRA | |||
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| One of Us |
I'm going to make another pitch for the 7x57. My own 1st CF rifle was a .308, the most accurate CF rifle in my house is a 308 - built for my wife specificly for her first trip to Africa - my oldest son's first CF was a 6.5x55 and son #2 started with a 308. That said, for the traveling hunter (specificly for Africa PG) I still stand by my reccomendation for the 7x57. Proven performance, mild recoil, unlimited availability of models and factory ammo widely availabe. In a Mauser you can stock it to fit with easy availability of a full size stock later. Don't make the mistake of getting a light-weight rifle regardless of caliber. He'll regret it in recoil! If you choose a plastic stock consider adding some weight to it. There's no wrong answer to your question. Best scenario is to let him try as many different rifles as possible before making a choice but keep in mind that within reason, fit and stock design can have more impact on felt recoil than caliber. Good luck, the important thing is to get him shooting - and liking it!  An old man sleeps with his conscience, a young man sleeps with his dreams. | |||
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A friend just did the same thing you are for his daughter. I reccomend a 3006 and use the light recoil loads. It leaves you with a much more versital rifle. And in no time your son will be using full power loads. The 3006 has no close rival and probably never will. If your parents didn't have any children chances are you won't either. | |||
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Please in first place you don't have to go trough any trouble getting or buying a rifle so you don't have to buy so it sticks for life unlike us here in RSA. Another good choice for a beginner could be the 6x45 It will teach your son to get close to hunt and make sure of the shot. Almost no recoil and will bring down anything and including Hartebeest size with ease. Frederik Cocquyt I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good. | |||
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I am a gret beliver in not over doing recoil. quite like the little CZ's in 7.62x39. That will be a fun, cheep to shoot rifle for the rest of his life. If you are going bigger...I am Biased becuase Zimbabwe's legal minimum caliber for game bigger than Impala is 7mm, but I would opt for a regular .308 I started out with a 7x57 and it was a rifle that brought me great joy and much success- it also started me handloading because ammo was a problem to find here in Zim - Definately an enthuiasts caliber | |||
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.308 a Win Featherwieght (get the stock cut down just a bit and add a really good recoil pad), Kimber, or Rem Model Seven with a Leupold 2.5x or 4x fixed scope (less fiddling around with magnifications setting - its tough enough for adults to keep their fingers off the dial) should be just about perfect. Start off with a bolt action .22, then low recoil loads, and then 150 regular loads. By the time you get 3 months out, go buy a case of that Aussie Mil-surp and go pound some targets. As for recoil sensitively, you should do all the sighting in and benchrest stuff, then let him shoot using field positions. And start early with shooting sticks - his PH will probably insist on using them. My nephew, who killed his first deer two years ago at 11 yo, liked my .260 Model Seven over my standard weight Model 700 .308 because it was lighter weight and easier to hold. I would never start a youngster or lady with more than a lightweight rifle in a modest caliber. If you are going to carry a big stick, you've got to whack someone with it at least every once in while. | |||
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| new member |
You've received a ton of great advice so mine is no doubt unnecessary but I'll offer my thoughts anyway. I started my son with a 243 and we ended up spending a lot of time tracking wounded game. I'm not saying the 243 isn't up to it because it is but IMHO it's not a beginners gun. Shot placement is very important so I highly recommend something that throws a bigger pill downrange. Of your primary choices I don't think you'd regret going with the 7mm08. It's nearly identical to the 7x57 ballistically which is a pretty good recommendation and bullet choices are available from 120 to 175 grains. My main recommendation would be to steer clear of any rifle with those awful short barrels or that is excessively light. Besides being VERY loud (which gives new shooters the impression of more recoil) anything below 22" will be a handicap to him later and if it's very light he may have trouble with the recoil. You can get a nice full sized rifle such as the Rem Mountain rifle, Ruger, CZ, or a host of others if you include the 7x57 in your search. Aftermarket stocks are easily purchased these days and can be either acquired in youth lengths or modified to be the right size for him and the original can later be installed as he grows. Good luck and take him shooting often! | |||
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My son used a Varberger .308 Super Light Kevlar. He was 10 last year when we hunted in South Africa and that worked great for him, we used 150 grains Rhino Bullets. | |||
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There is also some merit to a single shot for a first rifle. Safest and teaches one to make the shot count. Unfortunately, the Rugers are quite heavy. Even the no. 3s, they look light and compact but they are solid and too heavy for a kid to haul any kind of distance. They come in just about every cal. mentioned though. In addition to the 257, 6.5x55 as mentioned above, I would second the 7.62x39 as a good choice. Maybe even better...shorter range but more bullet. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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I would make him wait another 4 yrs.If he wants to go hunting he will do the research himself and tell you which is best for him.It seems you are trying to make someone a hunter who might not be a hunter.A 12 yr old is too young to thinking of hunting. | |||
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My dad started me when I was 10. He bought me a Remington 700 BDL in .243. It was a tackdriver, and I shot it well. I had every confidence in the world in it. Don't do that to your kid. Re-read Chundoo's post above. There is NOTHING that will crush a young hunter's heart like watching his perfectly hit animal streaking for the horizon and then agonizing through the long search in the dark. That will sour him for good much quicker than a bit more recoil will. That was 40 years ago, and I still hate that POS rifle! The 7X57, 7mm-08 and .308 are all sensible choices, although I'd lean toward the .308. I haven't tried the Managed Recoil stuff, but it sounds like a useful option. ----------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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270 Win with Remington low velocity low recoil ammo. Doesn't kick at all. This way you have a gun he can use through out adult years also. | |||
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For a light plains game rifle my son (then 12 years old) chose the Remington Model Seven .308 Win.  Next March, my 11 year old will be taking either a 7x57 Mauser or a 6.5x55 Swede. He hopes to take a springbok and perhaps a hartebeest with one or the other. He based his choice on better ammo availability in Africa even though he could have chosen a .250 Savage or a .257 Roberts. I'm glad to hear you are taking your young children with you hunting in Africa. Namibiahunter  . | |||
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The best advice I ever received was purchase two guns that are alike in every way except caliber. Have your son practice with something in the 6.5mm class or smaller but with a rifle that is just like the second but larger caliber. Like someone already said when he pulls the triger on the hunt he will not feel the recoil. | |||
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Go with the 7-08. It's a great round, good for anything in the lower forty eight, flat enough, and recoils like a 243. Might also consider the old 30-30. When I was 14, my dad had me shoot his 416 rigby... best way to get them to handle recoil is to toss 'em right in. I've had a love affair with big bores since I got my first black and bloody eye from getting scope gapped. Lots of fun. Shootaway- What are you talking about? 12 years old is not too young to be hunting. The earlier he starts, the better off he'll be in terms of safety, ability, and know-how. If my 5'4 wife can shoot a 375 H&H, this kid can handle a 7-08, or a 270. Also, what do you mean by saying that it sounds like he's trying to turn a nonhunter into a hunter? How's he going to know either way until he gets into it? For a 12 year old, there is no cooler present on earth than getting your own rifle. My first was a 30=06 at the age of 13. I shot it just fine and still have it to this day. I think I must of been eight or younger the first time I went dove hunting. My kids will be going with me as soon as they can pick up a BB gun. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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I would choose a 308 ,a scout concept is really adecuated ,my son is 11 but huge for his age ,he began shooting at 3 with airsoft guns at 4 with a ruger 1022 and a browning pistol ,then at 5 he began to hunt partriges with his 36 shotgun ,and introduced in shooting bows ,after tath he was converted in a shell burningmachine ,he nows at 11 shots very well his cz308,mauser 243,and even my 375hyhs as SGraves can testified because while he was hunting buffalo here in Argentina he permitted my son to test his merkel express 375hyh .So i would choose a 308 you can find ammo everywhere usually very cheap .I recommend again the safariprep course at www.gunsite.com .Juan www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
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By him a nice quality 30-06 and load it light with quality 165's. I would take him to the range and have him practice with light 150's. before you go load up and you should sight in the 165s. When he get's to africa, you should confirm the zero. Tell the PH that you want to get him on an impala doe close for camp meat. Have his first shot be on that doe...he won't even know the difference in recoil. He can use the rifle the rest of his life. If I had ben smart...I would have never bought another medium rifle other than my first 06 and spent the rest of my money on hunting Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| one of us |
Mike D your response was a better version of what I was going to write. 30-06 with light hand loads to start with. Move up when he is ready. You can always load lighter but us it full house when the time is right. He will only need one rifle for almost all his hunting. Good hunting "D" Although cartridge selection is important there is nothing that will substitute for proper first shot placement. Good hunting, "D" | |||
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| One of Us |
Well, by 13 or 14, there's a good chance (depending on his genetics) that he'd be big enough for a full-size stock. Whether or not you like Rugers, the Hogue stock on my Alaskan seems to soak up recoil. Knoxx makes a recoil absorbing stock for rifles that is supposed to be very effective -- I have one of their adjustable stocks on one of my pumps, and it works well. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. | |||
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When my daughter was 12, I got her a Ruger #1 in 7 X 57. We started with reduced handloads and worked up to 140 grainers. She took a nice zebra with it after a few months of practice. If it worked for my girl, it will work for your boy!  | |||
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| One of Us |
.270 Winchester. Should not need muzzle break or magna porting. The .270 is a little on the small side for me on kudu. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Advice sought on first rifle for my son
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