From what I have been told getting your trophies out of Zim is only a problem if you are hunting with a ph from another country and none of the proceeds from your hunt go to a Zim bank. Obviously if your ph is from SA he is going to take his money and return home which is contrary to Zim law ( or decree). Another fly in this ointment is that you must be a citizen of Zim to be a ph there, so some deception must occur somewhere. I overheard a well known and respected Zim ph talking about this but my memory is not 100% on the subject. Ganyana might explain it if he was so inclined

Ticky,

Save your breath. Dsiteman has been preaching doom and gloom and helter skelter in Zim for several years now. Those (if any) that listened to him two years ago and either did not book or cancelled their hunts lost out. Those (if any) that listened to him last year and either did not book or cancelled their hunts lost out. I maintain that he is simply going to keep up with this mantra until one day he actually may be correct. Then he will claim to have been prophetic ignoring the fact that anyone who makes a single-minded claim long enough is likely to be right some day.

I have asked him in the past to disclose his hunting background, whether he has ever even been to Africa and particularly Zim and he just attacks me as being a "head in the sand" rationalist trying to justify my travels.

Bottom line, take it from me, save your time and avoid the irritation.

Mike,

I have wondered myself about Dsiteman's background. It would be hard to imagine that anyone who had experienced the wonderful hunts that are to be had in Zimbabwe would speak so forcfully about NOT hunting there. I find myself a little puzzled about his motivation for the anti-Zim rhetoric.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Ticky,

Save your breath. Dsiteman has been preaching doom and gloom and helter skelter in Zim for several years now. Those (if any) that listened to him two years ago and either did not book or cancelled their hunts lost out. Those (if any) that listened to him last year and either did not book or cancelled their hunts lost out. I maintain that he is simply going to keep up with this mantra until one day he actually may be correct. Then he will claim to have been prophetic ignoring the fact that anyone who makes a single-minded claim long enough is likely to be right some day.

I have asked him in the past to disclose his hunting background, whether he has ever even been to Africa and particularly Zim and he just attacks me as being a "head in the sand" rationalist trying to justify my travels.

Bottom line, take it from me, save your time and avoid the irritation.

Following your reasoning if a risk is not 100% it is not a risk at all? That is just foolish.

What if you show up and you PH is thrown out of the country?

What if you are not allowed in the country?

What if Zims airspace is closed?

What if the US won't allow shipment from Zim?

What if you PH can't get supplies for camp?

What if your hunting concession is closed to you by the government?

Go take a look at the thread about getting your trophies out of Zim and tell me everything is just perfect over there.

Lets say there is a 10% chance of not getting your trophies out? That is reason enough for me to never go there!

Gee, I hadn't thought about that. And . . .

What if the plane crashes on the way over?

What if I get killed in a car accident on the way to the airport here?

What if I am killed by a PETA member masquerading as a parking lot attendant?

What if I oversleep and miss my flight?

What if get diarrhea at the airport and miss the flight?

What if I drink a beer on the flight that has been tainted with a poison by a disgruntled brewmaster that is high on yeast fumes?

What if a spark from the mopane fire catches my socks on fire, and then my legs burn up?

Get a grip, there is risk in everything we do every day. And if someone travels internationally -- anywhere -- there are risks. The informed make conscious and deliberate decisions based on the best information available -- including reports from those on the ground.

As for trophies, I hunted in Zim in September, my trophies arrived in Houston in April and are now in the hands of my taxdermist. But come to think of it, what if my taxidermist absconds with my leopard and turns it into women's shoes and purses . . .

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Mike,

I have wondered myself about Dsiteman's background. It would be hard to imagine that anyone who had experienced the wonderful hunts that are to be had in Zimbabwe would speak so forcfully about NOT hunting there. I find myself a little puzzled about his motivation for the anti-Zim rhetoric.

Mark

Out of curiousity what do you tell your clients in regards to booking a hunt in Zim? I assume you explain the pros and cons of hunting there?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Gee, I hadn't thought about that. And . . .

What if the plane crashes on the way over?

What if I get killed in a car accident on the way to the airport here?

What if I am killed by a PETA member masquerading as a parking lot attendant?

What if I oversleep and miss my flight?

What if get diarrhea at the airport and miss the flight?

What if I drink a beer on the flight that has been tainted with a poison by a disgruntled brewmaster that is high on yeast fumes?

What if a spark from the mopane fire catches my socks on fire, and then my legs burn up?

Get a grip, there is risk in everything we do every day. And if someone travels internationally -- anywhere -- there are risks. The informed make conscious and deliberate decisions based on the best information available -- including reports from those on the ground.

As for trophies, I hunted in Zim in September, my trophies arrived in Houston in April and are now in the hands of my taxdermist. But come to think of it, what if my taxidermist absconds with my leopard and turns it into women's shoes and purses . . .

Instead of comparing miniscule risks lets compare apples to apples.

Is the risk of getting your trophies out of Zim higher then in Namibia, Botswana, or South Africa?

Is the risk of having your hunting concessions taken away higher in Zim then in Namibia, Botswana, or South Africa?

Is the risk of having civil war break out in Zim higher then in Namibia, Botswana, or South Africa?

Is the risk of not getting allowed into Zim higher then in Namibia, Botswana, or South Africa?

Taking calculated risks is part of life, but pretending risks don't exist to make yourself feel better is just foolish.

GeoffM24,

The vast majority of clients I speak to about hunts in Zimbabwe already know as much as I do about the political instability in the country. When they weigh the "risk" against the value for their dollar about half pick Zim and the rest other destinations.

Geoff we book all over Africa and have our own concessions in Tanzania. I don't have to "push" Zim to make a dollar. People that contact me about Zim have already mostly decided that they want to hunt there because they realize the high level of safari expereince they can expect. If I personally could afford it I'd be in Zim hunting ele this year.

Clients this year are experiencing the same trouble free safari's myself and my clients had last year.

Mark

Life is striking a risk and reward balance everyday. Some strike it one way, others strike the balance another way. The point is to be informed and make conscious decisions.

Comparing the hunting in South Africa to Zim is uninformed. In Namibia, the only meaningful elephant hunting is in the Caprivi Strip. Hunts are limited and expensive for exportable trophies. Botswana would be great -- I would love to go there -- but it is expensive too.

I am not trying to make myself or anyone else feel better. I am comfortable with my decision. I do have an issue with those that express opinions based on incomplete, partial or worse yet, no information. When was the last time you spoke to someone on the ground in Zim? I talked to someone at their home two days ago. I email multiple folks almost daily.

So many people spend so much of their time worrying and fretting they forget that it is called life for reason . . . live it.

Mike, I'll give you some of your own good advice...don't waste your time talking to Geoff about Zim. He has demonstrated numerous times that he has no desire to go there. That's fine. Let him go to RSA.

Other risks:

1. Risk of being a victim of violent crime. In RSA that risk is HIGH and in Zim the risk is low.

2. Risk of getting cheated by your outfitter. In RSA that risk is HIGH and in Zim the risk is low (as long as you book directly with a Zim operator and not through a South African company).

3. Risk of hunting on a 40 acre fenced paddock instead of in a large concession with free-roaming game. In RSA this risk is HIGH but in Zim it is low.

4. Risk of hunting within 20 miles of a shopping mall. In RSA this risk is moderate but in Zim the risk is low.

5. Risk of paying too much for your safari. In Botswana and RSA the risk is very high. In Zim the risk is low.

And so on.

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
Mike, I'll give you some of your own good advice...don't waste your time talking to Geoff about Zim. He has demonstrated numerous times that he has no desire to go there. That's fine. Let him go to RSA.

The exact opposite is true. Right around this time next year I'll be on a plane to Botswana. While there certainly are areas of RSA that are great I find it too difficult to pick the right one.

As for Zim, that was my first choice. Personally I love the type of terrain and the dangerous game pricing but like anything in life you get what you pay for. Zims pricing is cheaper for a reason. I also wanted a greater selection of plains game and higher quality level. I have no desire to worry about, getting there, getting back, trophies, unrest, strikes, frozen bank accounts, civil war etc.

For me, the risks you have to take in going to Zim do not outway the cost benefits.

My point is that it well may be in fact true that because of prices, Zim is the only country a person could go to to hunt (fill in the blank). That does not mean that there are not very real risks taken that may or may not come to be.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
GeoffM24,

The vast majority of clients I speak to about hunts in Zimbabwe already know as much as I do about the political instability in the country. When they weigh the "risk" against the value for their dollar about half pick Zim and the rest other destinations.

Geoff we book all over Africa and have our own concessions in Tanzania. I don't have to "push" Zim to make a dollar. People that contact me about Zim have already mostly decided that they want to hunt there because they realize the high level of safari expereince they can expect. If I personally could afford it I'd be in Zim hunting ele this year.

Clients this year are experiencing the same trouble free safari's myself and my clients had last year.

Mark

I'm glad that the last couple years were fine and I hope the next couple are even better. Stability in Zim would be great for everyone. I know that I would certainly go.

Personally I can't extrapolate a trouble free future based in the last couple years safaris.

dsiteman, I've read your post for as long as I have been a member of AR and you have badmouthed and run down anyone who ever thought of going to Zim. That's your business and that's fine but you have to have some burr under your saddle to keep harping on Zim? Something has happened in your life that has turned you against Zim for one reason or another. No disrespect intended but I'm curious, what is the real story?
On another subject, someone stated earlier about never receiving trophies from Zim. I am one of those! If there is any one reason to keep me from going back to Zim, it's because they won't give me my trophies. Damn those bastards!!!

Geoff, to answer your long list of queries: go back a page and check out my first comment, it says something like this... if the operators themselves had any doubt then they would NOT be operating as the risks involved would not be worth it. Guess what they (including the best of the best) ARE still operating. That should give you an answer.
Thanks to the rest of you for some positive thoughts on Zim, it is a nice change. I am going to save my breath now...

I was naive thinking that the March elections would make the situation and Zim more stable and it would be a easier choice to go there in 09. We all know that didn't happen and I agree, it's risk/reward ratio is still something we can all argue about. One of the biggest concerns for me isn't my personnal safety, gas for the rover, supplies in camp, it would be getting my trophies out and shipped home. Regardless of what outfitter, they cannot unfreeze bank accounts frozen by the government and guarantee export papers for trophies.I shoot a good Buf,,, I want it on my wall, not getting moth eatten in some zim warehouse.

My suggestion is to observe who is getting their Zim trophies now and find out who they used to get shipments when many others have not gotten theirs. You might find a pattern that is useful.

I spent three weeks in ZIM this April 2008. I was mostly in Chewore South. We drove one day to Chinyika. I chartered a plane from Harare to Chewore. I spent two days in Harare. We encountered the usual roadblocks near the towns.

No special problems. All contries have issues. I was kidnapped in Venezuela on the way to the airport in 2005. It worked out.

I would suppose that anyone who hunts dangerous game would be willing to accept a reasonable risk of travel. I have spent many, many weeks over many years in third world contries.

Use reasonable caution and common sense and Zim is no worse than anyplace else I have travelled. I would not hesitate to return and will do so. Good hunting.

Oh, I'm "sure" that all the current negativity about Zimbabwe is just overreaction. Sounds like a regular vacation paradise!

quote:

Travel Alert
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of Consular Affairs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This information is current as of today, Sat May 17 05:55:57 2008.

Zimbabwe

May 14, 2008


This Travel Alert is being issued to update U.S. citizens on safety and security concerns throughout Zimbabwe due to ongoing political instability following the March 29 national elections, and recommends deferral of non-essential travel to Zimbabwe at this time. This supersedes the Travel Alert for Zimbabwe dated April 11, 2008 and expires on July 1, 2008.

U.S. citizens should defer non-essential travel to Zimbabwe. While the country prepares for a runoff of the presidential elections between President Robert Mugabe and Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) candidate Morgan Tsvangirai, Zimbabwean security forces, including some military and police, as well as so-called war veterans, are creating a climate of intimidation and fear across the country, particularly in rural areas and high-density suburbs. There have been attacks on opposition supporters, renewed farm invasions, and arrests of election officials accused of vote tampering. There is a continued risk of arbitrary detention or arrest.

Americans should be particularly cautious when using still, video or telephone cameras in any urban setting, or in the vicinity of any political activity, as this could be construed by Zimbabwean authorities as practicing journalism without accreditation, a crime punishable by arrest, incarceration and/or deportation.

American citizens traveling to or resident in Zimbabwe should register with the U.S. Embassy by completing a registration form online at https://travelregistration.state.gov. Registration enables the Embassy to contact American citizens in case of emergency and provide updates on the security situation.

As the Department of State continues to develop information on any potential security threats to U.S. citizens overseas, it shares credible threat information through its consular information program documents, available on the Internet at http://travel.state.gov. In addition to information on the Internet, travelers may obtain up-to-date information on security conditions by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the U.S. or outside the U.S. and Canada on a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444.

source: http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3234.html

To all who live in fear,

Here is another place for you not to travel.


December 19, 2007

This Travel Warning updates information on the security situation in Saudi Arabia and reminds U.S. citizens of recommended security precautions. It supersedes the Travel Warning issued June 14, 2007.

The Department of State urges U.S. citizens to consider carefully the risks of traveling to Saudi Arabia. The security threat level remains high due to the continued presence of terrorist groups, some affiliated with al Qaida, who may target Western interests, housing compounds, and other facilities where Westerners congregate. These terrorist groups may also target Saudi Government facilities and economic/commercial targets within the Kingdom.

In February 2007, four French tourists were killed in a terrorist incident on a desert track north of Medina. A gunman fired shots at the U.S. Consulate General in Jeddah in May 2006. In February 2006, terrorists attempted an attack on Saudi oil facilities in Abqaiq in the Eastern Province. An armed attack on the U.S. Consulate General in Jeddah on December 6, 2004, resulted in five deaths and eleven serious injuries among non-U.S. staff members.

Although extremists have not conducted a successful attack against Westerners since February 2007, the United States Mission in Saudi Arabia remains an unaccompanied post as a result of continued security concerns. The Department of State has approved limited family visitation by adult dependents, in part because of the significant progress Saudi security forces have made in counteracting the terrorist threat within Saudi Arabia as they continue to arrest and break up terrorist cells

From time to time, the U.S. Embassy and Consulates in Saudi Arabia may restrict travel of official Americans or suspend public services for security reasons. In those instances, the Embassy and Consulates will keep the local American citizen community apprised through the Warden System and make every effort to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens. Warden Messages can be found on the U.S. Embassy Riyadh website: http://riyadh.usembassy.gov.

American citizens who choose to visit Saudi Arabia are strongly urged to avoid staying in hotels or housing compounds that do not apply stringent security measures and are also advised to maintain good situational awareness when visiting commercial establishments frequented by Westerners. American citizens also are advised to keep a low profile; vary times and routes of travel; exercise caution while driving, entering or exiting vehicles; and ensure that travel documents and visas are current and valid.

The Department of State advises that under Saudi law, married women need the permission of their husbands to leave Saudi Arabia and all children require the permission of their fathers to exit the country. This is true regardless of nationality, and the U.S. Embassy has very limited ability to facilitate exit permission.

Updated information on travel and security in Saudi Arabia may be obtained from the Department of State by calling 1-888-407-4747 from within the U.S. or Canada or, from outside the U.S. or Canada on a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444. For additional information, consult the Department of State’s Country Specific Information for Saudi Arabia, the Worldwide Caution Travel Alert, and Middle East and North Africa Travel Alert at http://travel.state.gov.

U.S. citizens who require emergency services may telephone the Embassy in Riyadh at (966) (1) 488-3800, the Consulate in Jeddah at (966) (2) 667-0080, or the Consulate in Dhahran at (966) (3) 330-3200.

Saudi has got to be among the safest places that I have ever visited, however, your armchair travel experience will surely differ. What a sad state of affairs to live one's life in the shadow of others' experiences.

To all of you, a vicarious salute. Good hunting to those who actually hunt Africa!!!

quote:

Here is another place for you not to travel.


December 19, 2007

This Travel Warning updates information on the security situation in Saudi Arabia

Pity.
I'm sure the hunting is "great" in Saudi.



There's nothing in the DOS advisory that expressly forbids a US citizen to go to Zim. It's just that they want to have your information just in case your ten-foot-tall and bulletproof self disappears or is killed. You know, for legal and humanitarian reasons.

It would seem that for the most part the US travel advisories come from information provided by the embassy. From my experience (albeit limited) we are talking about the view of folks living in bigger cities (like Harare), and to some extent the embassy people get hassled there because the two governments are not really friendly. Can't say I blame them for being cautious, but I really don't think that hunters are really on their radar screen that much.

FWIW