I'm starting a new thread as the other has been hijacked.

Does anyone know how much money conservation force needs at this time?

Keep the money going folks!

Brett

Good idea.

Here is how to donate

CLICK HERE

enter a reasonable number like say $100 and a credit card. Make a note in the message field about if you want.

Check off "African Lion Study"

Go have a Scotch knowing that you are a part of the solution.

John Hunt

Well Brett I think more people would enjoy arguing then actually doing something to solve the problem. This illustrates why the anti's will eventually win. Such a shame.

All,

This thread is in response to the bellow post. Please consider making a donation to lion conservation. Anyone who has hunted a lion or plans to like me should make a donation!


From the www.huntingreport.com

African Lion Hunting In Crisis

(posted January 27, 2009)

I just received word from John J. Jackson, III, of Conservation Force regarding the impending doom of African lion hunting if the hunting community does not take immediate action. You may remember his report about this issue in the November 2008 issue of Conservation Force Bulletin, which is delivered with your monthly issue of The Hunting Report. In his cover story, Jackson explains how African lions are on the verge of being listed on Appendix I of CITES, which would spell the end of African lion hunting. The only way to prevent this from occurring is the creation of country-by-country action plans to conserve lion.

Since Jackson's report, the situation has become even more urgent. Although Jackson has successfully lined up the experts and government authorizations to conduct the necessary field studies in various countries, funding has failed to come through and time is running out. If there are no concrete conservation plans for presentation at the 15th Conference of CITES in January 2010, we will lose the ability to hunt African lion altogether.

So, what will it take to get this very important project done? In an urgent note, Jackson writes, "We need $60,000 this week and $200,000 more from now through April. Eric Pasanisi of Tanganyika Wildlife Safaris has just contributed $20,000, and Michel Mantheakis of Miombo Safaris has contributed $10,000. Conservation Force needs another $30,000 more this week!

"Our campaign to raise the funds over the past few months has been a dismal failure. Worse, Conservation Force has had a serious shortfall in its own operating funds due to the state of the economy. Nevertheless, this is the very last window of opportunity if the lion is not to be listed. When it is over, it is over."

Conservation Force and International Foundation for Conservation of Wildlife serve on the African Lion Working Group and the IUCN Cat Specialist Group. They are partnered to make the hunting community the Ducks Unlimited of the African lion and enhance the profile of hunting in turn. Please make a tax deductible contribution to Conservation Force and help save the African lion and our ability to hunt this magnificent species. Send donations to PO Box 278, Metairie, LA 70004-0278. Credit card payments are accepted. Call 504-837-1233 for more information or visit the Conservation Force web site at http://www.conservationforce.org/.

I think I was thinking the same thing John.

Brett

John,

I don't drink Scotch, but you have a Scotch I'll have a beer and we can enjoy knowing we tried!



Brett

I would like to say THANK YOU to everyone who has already donated to this, and urge everyone else to consider it. I read on the Conservation Force web site that there will be no overhead taken out these donations. 100% of this money is going directly to fund the studies that are needed. The Tanzanian outfitters are stepping up to the plate, besides the ones mentioned in the earlier post Raul Ramoni of TBGS has donated $15,000 to the cause. If these guys think it is that important maybe the rest of us should pay attention. John Jackson has said he would like to see this become the DU OR RMEF of Africa, so in the future money could be spent on projects that will really address the conservation of the Lion instead of defending Lion hunting from the anti hunters. I think habitat loss and the exploding population in Africa are the real threats to Lions. Responsible sport hunting is not a threat to the lion population. This fight is not going to end here if we win. We are going to have many more attacks by the antis in the future on African hunting.

Again I would like to Thank everyone who donated and urge the rest to consider it.

Thanks for the update Gary.

ALL,

Please consider donating.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
John,

I don't drink Scotch, but you have a Scotch I'll have a beer and we can enjoy knowing we tried!



Brett

... seems like we need the Titanics band in the background.

I will take that drink.

I like Gary's idea of an RMEF type outfit in Southern Africa. Creating and managing wildlife areas in the countries that allow hunting.

Has anyone had trouble making a contribution through the website?

As far as I know mine went through.

Brett

Larry,had problem Thurs afternoon...they should have it fixed by Monday..It,s important ...keep the faith..or call direct...Butch

I'll try again today.

Thanks.

Once again the SCI debate flourishes while the lion conservation thread drops out of existence. For anyone who has not yet contributed, please consider contributing to this cause.

Brett

I just made a call to CF. John Jackson has prepared an update to be posted on AR. They are awaiting approval from the moderators or whoever to be able to post. It seems we have done some good. We must have caught their attention, to have our own update. THANKS AGAIN to everyone who has donated, and everyone else please consider donating.

Thanks for the update Gary.

Brett

/

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Wattis:
I just made a call to CF. John Jackson has prepared an update to be posted on AR. They are awaiting approval from the moderators or whoever to be able to post. It seems we have done some good. We must have caught their attention, to have our own update. THANKS AGAIN to everyone who has donated, and everyone else please consider donating.

They are welcome to post whatever they wish, they do not need any approval from us.

Everyone is free to participate on AR, and we do not ask for anything except a valid email address.

And we only ask for that in case someone forgets their logging information.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Could not help but wonder?

What about the real lion conservationsists, the men and women who are in fact the experts in real time lion experience, many with doctorates who are currently in the field studying lion, producing the data and peer reviewed papers on the status of Lion. Where do they fit in????????????

I would think that anyone with valid research data from wild lion studies throughout southern/eastern Africa would be welcome to submit the data to the folks at Conservation Force for use in persuading the various regional government officials that properly managed lion hunting enhances rather than detracts from overall lion numbers. however i don't think that scientists or people with advanced degrees are the only "real lion conservationists" or the only "experts in real time lion experience". bottom line though, all are welcome at the table.

Saeed,
When we were talking on the phone I could not remember exactly what the procedure was when I signed up, so I did not say anything. I think they were waiting for an e-mail conformation or password to log in. When I called I just asked how the fundraising was going for the Lion and he brought up AR and the response they have received from the members here. That is what prompted them to want to post an update here. So, they might be confused as to the procedure to post here. THANKS Saeed for providing the forum were something worthwhile like this can occur.

As to ALF's question, my understanding is that is exactly were this funding is going. It is to be used to conduct the studies and prepare the conservation plans for the countries to take to the CITIES meeting in Jan 2010. They have said they have the experts, Phds lined up and the approval from the relevant countries to go forward with the research. This is a pretty large undertaking, as I think that every country that has lion hunting needs a conservation plan backed up by credible scientific evidence and there are regional plans that have to be prepared also.

Thanks again Saeed

If the studies are all paid for by the anti's guess what position they will support.

That is why the countries need credible scientific evidence to refute the biased evidence that Kenya and the antis bring to the meeting. In one of the opposing studies they left out all of the lions in Tanzania's hunting areas, which is substantial amount of lions. This is not a new fight. Conservation Force funded the study in 2002 that was the largest population study ever conducted on any large cat. This has been used at the CITIES meetings to refute the Kenyan's proposals and keep the lion from being listed as an appendix 1 species by CITIES. The countries need updated credible scientific evidence to back up their conservation plans.

A

But it isn't that black and white. Rather, as a hunter, my goal is to promote conservation efforts that allow for enough biologic diversity to allow for hunting. Look for ways that you can have lions and hunt them. vs having so few lions that hunting would be detrimental to the survival of the species or ecosystem.

When, if ever, the numbers drop so low that hunting is ill advised, then I will support the cessation of the hunting... until populations can recover.

Just like Rhino. Not like Polar Bear.

ALF,
This is coming from a hunters perspective, but I hope that is not going to influence the results of the research. I think my personal motivation is both, to do something to really help the lion and as a hunter to assure the future of hunting. What angers me is the money that is spent on fighting these proposals could be spent on projects that would really benefit the lion.
I agree with you there are numerous threats to lions besides the cities issue. Habitat loss, an exploding human population, disease there are plenty. I think most here would support credible scientists if their research showed there was really a problem with lion hunting. I think as with a lot species there are some populations that are doing great and others that are in peril and need help. As far as hunting goes there needs to be sensible regulations, sustainable quotas and the harvesting of mature animals for both the conservation of the lion and the preservation of our ability to hunt these great animals. If we could get beyond these fights with the antis we could much more to truly help with the the conservation of the lion.

You want to do something to ensure the sustainability of lion as a huntable specie?

DON'T SHOOT YOUNG LIONS!

Next time you are out there on a safari with lion on license and your PH/outfitters clears you to take a young male, RESIST and turn him down knowing your are now part of the solution rather than the problem.

Oh, and I agree with ALF and most others on this thread. The conservation of lion should not be motivated by whether they can be hunted or not.

I would say they can save a lot of money and a lot of lions by just banning the subleasing practise in Tanzania(Banning something that's already illegal... ...Africa)

quote:

Originally posted by Mguu:
I would say they can save a lot of money and a lot of lions by just banning the subleasing practise in Tanzania(Banning something that's already illegal... ...Africa)

All that would achieve would be to reduce a great many camps and areas etc to a far lower standard than is the current case.

A high percentage of actual leaseholders couldn't organise a piss up in a brewerary and would always opt to take the least expensive route for their product.

Subleasing to outside companies who have the know how and infrastructure etc to organise a good qualiy product is one of the things that makes the Tanzanian hunting product as good and as reliable as it is.

I personally think that Bwanamich has it about right and will add that if we want to see Lion hunting continue, we need to put a firm stop to the canned Lion hunting industry because if we don't stop it, the antis will eventually use it as a weapon to put a stop to all Lion hunting and possibly to all hunting.

I also think it's a great idea for us to fund Conservation Force in a concerted effort to prevent the classification change if at all possible.

[/QUOTE]

All that would achieve would be to reduce a great many camps and areas etc to a far lower standard than is the current case.

A high percentage of actual leaseholders couldn't organise a piss up in a brewerary and would always opt to take the least expensive route for their product.

Subleasing to outside companies who have the know how and infrastructure etc to organise a good qualiy product is one of the things that makes the Tanzanian hunting product as good and as reliable as it is.
[/QUOTE]

I know these "leaseholders" you're referring to,and they are exactly my problem.I had a butchers around some of their camps and it left me wide-eyed.And their trucks...and the 7 other hunting parties in the same block...shocking.

These outside companies,I agree,do a far better job on equipment, etc.So,if they stop subleasing these no good companies will have to fold and the outside companies can come in,take it over,make a long term investment in Tanzania and we all live happily ever after.

I just took my valium so leave me in my happy place,please

I agree that giving the concession leases to the outside companies direct would make for a much better product, better managed areas and greater income for everyone, including the game dept, but I reckon there's more chance of pigs flying that that happening.

Brett,

My apologies for wandering off topic. I'll STFU now.

Mguu

PM sent

Can't we just talk about SCI shortcomeings some more????

Guys I have been funding Conservation Force for sometime. John Jackson does great work on our behalf in Washington and internationally as well to make sure we don't get trampled on. An excellent cause to be sure!

All,

Please consider contributing.

Brett

I just contributed. Apparently whatever problem that plagued them last weekend if corrected.