Have any of you seen a Royal, or any other best quality sidelock, in the field? If so, when and where, what cartridge, etc., etc?

Had one-a 500/465 that I took on one safari. Shot a couple of buffalo with it. Loved this rifle. Had it for about 3 yrs and sold it for twice what I paid- loved it even more....

I've had the occasional client bring them and/or Rigby etc. All beautiful rifles but the most interesting I've seen was a McKay round action double rifle which was truly a thing of beauty. I met the maker in Dar last year and was interested to hearthat he only made an appreciable profit if he made a run of 6 or more rifles......

I also have a client who occasionally asks me to find him an interesting top quality double with a good/interesting provenance for him to buy as an investment.......

Doubled your money on a Royal? You bought well and sold even better. That's no small potatoes.

Hello Landrum

I have H&H Royal in 375 Express calibers, but have not shot anything with it.

Regards
Aziz

If anyone has pictures of these Royals, please post.

Azia, I had trouble seeing your pictures. I'll just try if this way of linking is better??





- mike

P.S. Seemed to work - at least for me...

Thank you Mike I was having difficulty having the photos show.

Bwanna enjoy. I will try and post a few more once the link starts working for me.

Regards
Aziz

I will try and see if I can post more photos of my rifle.





















It is a lovely rifle.
Regards
Aziz

I took one from Marshall Fields III for a client/friend in Dallas. It was just like the one Teddy R took to Africa. My friend took an elephant with it etc.and had me sell it again. I sold it for $32,500.00 but that was nearly 10 yrs. ago. It shot paper very well as that is all I ever got to do with it while in my hands.
I have a H&H Royal 12 Bore for sale now. Still one of the nicest double rifles to pass thru my hands was a Westley Richards 577 NE with a beautiful gold engraved elephant on the bottom.
Sold it to a D.R. collector in VA. It was the real deal!

Great stories and great pics.

Ok, sorry for the slight highjack, as this really has nothing to do with the thread. But this thread reminded me of what my dad and I saw at the Houston Safari Club show back in January. Holland & Holland had a booth and there were 7 or 8 NICE doubles on the table. That was all fine and dandy, but then I got to looking at price tags!! The CHEAPEST gun on the table was $85,000!!! Several were over $125,000!!! To be honest, the only thing that came to mind was "DAMN!!"

Saeed could buy the whole table.

Does he have any doubles?

quote:

Originally posted by Landrum:
Have any of you seen a Royal, or any other best quality sidelock, in the field? If so, when and where, what cartridge, etc., etc?

Well, I have debated whether to post or not. I certainly don't do so to be bragging or putting anyone down. However, if I ever write some of this stuff up, it will be known anyway. I'm photo posting dumb, so I can't post pictures I have of some of the by-gones even though I have some pictures.

Over the years I have used several Hollands and other best grades as that is why I had them. I have taken a Royal Deluxe in .450 #2, Royal .375 Fl. Mag., Royal .600, Royal .465, Royal .300 H&H/.300 Fl Mag. and just this month a Royal 500/450.
Other "best rifles" have been a WR sidelock .375 H&H, Stephan Grant .475 #2, WR droplock .577

I learned long ago not to assume something about someone as they will often surprise you.

Those sound like some wonderful rifles. Do you mind sharing photos...preferably with game? You probably have some nice shotguns too. Congrats on your nice collection. I can post photos for you if you send them to me. My email is bpettet@gci.net

Saeed doesn't seem to be interested in double rifles at all, maybe double shotguns.

I met a U.S. Tychoon of children's toy manufacturing in Botswana in 2001. He had a 6-figure $$$ H&H Royal 500 NE, newly "bespoke" for him. Besides tolerating my presence in his camp after my PH and I helped haul back his elephant meat, he allowed me to heft his H&H.

It weighed about 12 pounds and felt clubbier than my Merkel 470 NE. No accounting for "bespoke" specs, eh?

His first shots with it on game were a double discharge at the elephant bull's skull. It died anyway.

Aziz, thanks for the pictures. That gun has some serious character.

And history, I'm sure.

Have used an H&H 500/450 on numerous hunts since acquiring it in 1986: Elephant, cape buffalo and duiker. Take a look at The Double Gun Journal Vol XIII No. 4 and Vol. XIV No. 1 for an elephant hunt in the Caprivi Strip with pix and details of the rifle. Here is one of the photos.

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Carney:
Have used an H&H 500/450 on numerous hunts since acquiring it in 1986: Elephant, cape buffalo and duiker. Take a look at The Double Gun Journal Vol XIII No. 4 and Vol. XIV No. 1 for an elephant hunt in the Caprivi Strip with pix and details of the rifle. Here is one of the photos.

Regards

Let's add the photo...

Duiker you say? That's funny. Nice knife by the way.

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
I learned long ago not to assume something about someone as they will often surprise you.

Those sound like some wonderful rifles. Do you mind sharing photos...preferably with game? You probably have some nice shotguns too. Congrats on your nice collection. I can post photos for you if you send them to me. My email is bpettet@gci.net

I'll dig around and try to send you some to use in the next few days if I can get time between Drs.

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
Duiker you say? That's funny. Nice knife by the way.

Yes, the duiker dropped to the shot, a 480 grain solid fired at about 35 yards...

The knife is by Tom Ferry shortly after he got seriously into the knife-forging business. It is African Hunter No. 2, random damascus (No. 1 was ladder damascus with a blade to long to be more than a camp knife.)

The Holland was made in 1904 s/n 179XX, a back action sidelock, 10 lbs. 10 oz. I am seeking quotes in the UK now to add a pair of .375 flanged magnum barrels.

Regards

Tim, I assume that rifle was intended to use Cordite powders. What do you do for powder in the modern loads?

For all in the know, is there a concern about the integrity of older doubles (turn of the century or shortly thereafter) when using modern powders for reloading?

A good friend has one in 9,3x74R for sale. Was a .303, and was re-bored and re-regulated after WWII by the factory. 7½" lbs, not too badly dinged, but has been carried a lot. Cannot post pictures as our internet connection is too slow but will answer any PM's.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:
Tim, I assume that rifle was intended to use Cordite powders. What do you do for powder in the modern loads?

For all in the know, is there a concern about the integrity of older doubles (turn of the century or shortly thereafter) when using modern powders for reloading?

Guess I've never heard that double base smokeless powder wasn't "modern".
---------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
I learned long ago not to assume something about someone as they will often surprise you.

Those sound like some wonderful rifles. Do you mind sharing photos...preferably with game? You probably have some nice shotguns too. Congrats on your nice collection. I can post photos for you if you send them to me. My email is bpettet@gci.net

Tried to send a number of pictures tonight and the mail is coming back.

I use a sidelock double rifle in the field. It isn't an H&H Royal but it is a very nice back action rifle. It is a Marcel Thys in 458wm. I have used it for elephants, cape buffalo, a zebra, a klipspringer and a baboon mercy killing.

Here is a photo:

And they say a .458 WM isn't up to the job.

Hi Guys,

Anyone interested in Old english guns could do worse than gettig in touch with Dig Hadoke at Vintage Guns in my signiture line.

Dig is a good freind and writes for the double gun journal, and we often go to Auction viewings together as he needs someone to hold the guns for him that he is appraising for customers. (I'm the one putting the peice of armour on my mate in the last issue)

He's currently looking out for a 375 for me but you will often find bigger calibres that are difficult to get on ticket here, come out of collections and go to the states or elsewhere. The dollar isn't helping you at the moment but it might be worth look at.

There are always a few Hollands and Purdey's in the sale, so it may be worth talking to him.

His book on the evolution of the English shotgun will be launched later this year and after proof reading it, I found it very interesting indeed.

Just thought I'd mention it if it helps someone find the gun of their dreams at adecent price.

Rgds,
FB

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bwanna:
Tim, I assume that rifle was intended to use Cordite powders. What do you do for powder in the modern loads?

For all in the know, is there a concern about the integrity of older doubles (turn of the century or shortly thereafter) when using modern powders for reloading?

Guess I've never heard that double base smokeless powder wasn't "modern".
---------------------------------------------
Gents,

I use IMR 4831 for the 500/450 and get very good regulation at just over 2,000 fps. (See pix of targets at 50 and 100 yds in The DGJ article.) Loading density is good and no need for fillers as is the case for those who use RL-15 in the big doubles.
Regards, Tim