I'm sure this will go over like the proverbial you-know-what in a punchbowl, but I think leopards and really all wild cats are pretty magnificent creatures and I won't shoot them. I killed a big bobcat one day, by far not my first, and watched the lights go out in his eyes as he died. That was enough for me. I'm done with killing cats. Call it anything you want, but that's my personal position.

OTOH I'm not telling someone else what they should do and if I owned a prize herd of cattle with a leopard around that would be an entirely different situation.

The man in the article's position kind of breaks down when he opposes sport killing of problem animals, the animal winds up dead anyway, and you have two options, paying a full time hunter or hunters to go around and kill problem leopards or you can allow foreign hunters to kill them for a large trophy fee plus the hiring of locals, etc......seems like a no brainer to me. His arguments of problem leopard permit abuse could easily be fixed.

Poor, poor misunderstood Leopards-------

How to keep them around??

Make them profitable.

.. Here we go with the maudlin sentiment ...I just hope the cat hunters gain strength and resolve and now that some city boy has become their adversary they form a good plan and system to combat him and his foolishness ..And kill more cats !!!!... The only good reason to keep a major predator around is if it kills some unwanted species that people won,t ......


Wish we had some predator that specialized in killing wolves !!!

I'm not a cat lover unless you are talking about cat hunting. On the other hand I have a hard time shooting dogs. Leopard are fun to hunt but here at home I hunt the lowly feral house cat. They offer a bit of a challenge in that I try to shoot them with a suppressed rimfire at close range. Cat lovers seem to be strange breed.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

I'm sure this will go over like the proverbial you-know-what in a punchbowl, but I think leopards and really all wild cats are pretty magnificent creatures and I won't shoot them.

Gatogordo:

I feel that way about cats too. I just don't have any desire to shoot a leopard or a lion and the only thing I get from seeing a elephant hit the ground is a feeling of sadness. I understand why other guys want to do it and I don't have a problem with it, especially the elephants because I know their population has to be controlled, I just don't want to do it. Now, cape buffalo, that's another deal altogether

As a cat lover, I feel there is nothing at all strange about me.

My wife and I have several pet cats, that does not stop me from killing feral cats that are not close to anyone's house, and it really does not affect me as far as Bobcats are concerned.

I will kill a mountain Lion in a heartbeat if the opportunity ever arises, and if given the chance, I would shoot a Leopard.

Have no desire to kill an African Lion just to have done it.

If I lived over there and was trying to raise livestock, I would most like treat lions and leopards just like I do coyotes here and shoot them on sight, but with the potential $$$$$ that could be made off allowing trophy hunters to shoot them I would most like go that route.

A person can like/love cats or dogs, yet be a realist about it.

[QUOTE] Crazyhorseconsulting:

As a cat lover, I feel there is nothing at all strange about me.

My wife and I have several pet cats, that does not stop me from killing feral cats that are not close to anyone's house, and it really does not affect me as far as Bobcats are concerned.

I will kill a mountain Lion in a heartbeat if the opportunity ever arises, and if given the chance, I would shoot a Leopard.

Have no desire to kill an African Lion just to have done it.

If I lived over there and was trying to raise livestock, I would most like treat lions and leopards just like I do coyotes here and shoot them on sight, but with the potential $$$$$ that could be made off allowing trophy hunters to shoot them I would most like go that route.

A person can like/love cats or dogs, yet be a realist about it./QUOTE]


diddos +1

Leopards are like coyotes... they are survivors... I am a hunter and have hunted the leopard and been successfull... But to just go out and kill animals for the sake of killing is not and never will be in my book... Many of us have dreams and will fulfill them by fairchase...
Lets take the guy from the states who went on Reality TV and told his story about being attacked by a lion... Pen raised and released for him to shoot... He never said it was pen raised... That had many of us here cheering for the lion the first time we saw that video 3 or 4 years ago...

Mike

You shoot a leopard when it is eating your goat, sheep,cattle, geese, children, etc.

Also because it is a renewable resource that you can manage properly to generate income, much like game animals or birds.

It has to do with the animal's status in today's world. There are millions of coyotes and cattle, but how many leopards are there? IF an animal is endangered, or close to it, I don't think it's right to hunt/kill them, period. I don't know how many leopards there are, but if there are plenty around then I don't see anything wrong with hunting them.

quote:

Originally posted by SIR MAUSER:
It has to do with the animal's status in today's world. There are millions of coyotes and cattle, but how many leopards are there? IF an animal is endangered, or close to it, I don't think it's right to hunt/kill them, period. I don't know how many leopards there are, but if there are plenty around then I don't see anything wrong with hunting them.

As far as this neck of the woods is concerned there are many....in fact too many to count. It is a great shame that the hunting world has to contend with a small bunch of pen pushing conservationists (some of whom have probably never even been to Africa) who deem to be "experts" on the subject, substantiating their theory to the rare sightings of Leopard in daylight by declaring this feline as being on the brink of extinction and falling into the list of endangered species, regardless of the fact that these animals are known to be secretive, elusive and primarily nocturnal.
I do not discount the possibility that on some tracts of land (sheep and goat ranches in particular) both Leopard and Cheetah may have fallen foul of the rancher's wrath and their numbers decimated.
The rest of wild Africa however has no shortage of Panthera Pardus and the annual quotas released by CITES fall way below the desired number that would effectively come anywhere near maintaining the balance.

quote:

Originally posted by kibokolambogo:
As far as this neck of the woods is concerned there are many....in fact too many to count. It is a great shame that the hunting world has to contend with a small bunch of pen pushing conservationists (some of whom have probably never even been to Africa) who deem to be "experts" on the subject, substantiating their theory to the rare sightings of Leopard in daylight by declaring this feline as being on the brink of extinction and falling into the list of endangered species, regardless of the fact that these animals are known to be secretive, elusive and primarily nocturnal.
I do not discount the possibility that on some tracts of land (sheep and goat ranches in particular) both Leopard and Cheetah may have fallen foul of the rancher's wrath and their numbers decimated.
The rest of wild Africa however has no shortage of Panthera Pardus and the annual quotas released by CITES fall way below the desired number that would effectively come anywhere near maintaining the balance.

The ultimate example of those 'experts' has to be the idiot Australian Government who don't allow any importation of and Elephant or spotted cat product.

It is there. I can actually shoot it. I may legally shoot it. E'nuf justification for me!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

When I first went to Africa I shot plains game and then progressed to Buffalo, but said that I could never imagine myself ever wanting to shoot a beautiful leopard or an elephant. Having now shot both all I can tell you is that you have to be there. It is actually the hunt itself that hooks you rather than the quarry, although I suppose that statement is bollocks in itself because it is the quarry that makes the hunt. All I do know for certain is that when you are there doing it it is the most natural thing in the world and yet when you are back home it is difficult to justify if you are asked to do so.
It is significant that last year in camp we were feeding a female leopard in a tree next to the dining tent and taking great pleasure in watching her at 35yds while we were eating most nights. When she disapeared and it was feared that she had been killed following a fight with hyenas one night the whole camp was down ( including the PHs ). It still seemed quite normal to continue with our own hunt though.
What were we hunting - leopard of course.Go figure ??

I love my house cats, but have killed a mountain lion and a leopard. Wish I could afford african lion. Probably will kill another leopard some day. Don't have a problem with killing any predator. Also, I would really like to hunt Polar bear, so there, especially since I have all the other bears.

I am heading to Namibia in about six weeks and if the good Lord is willing and Karl Stumpf is able, I intend to slay a leopard.

Why? Because it is a hunt I have not yet experienced. There are leopard enough to harvest. The world will not be better or worse off for it.

Agreed.

The leopard is not even remotely threatened as a species. And they are dangerous game.

Like all other non-endangered species of game animal, they are a renewable natural resource, and can (and should) be hunted on a sustainable use basis.

I have enjoyed hunting them and look forward to doing so again.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
.. Here we go with the maudlin sentiment ...I just hope the cat hunters gain strength and resolve and now that some city boy has become their adversary they form a good plan and system to combat him and his foolishness ..And kill more cats !!!!... The only good reason to keep a major predator around is if it kills some unwanted species that people won,t ......


Wish we had some predator that specialized in killing wolves !!!

Bring on the animal Holocaust eh Gumboot ...??

KILL EM ALL ..!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

I'm sure this will go over like the proverbial you-know-what in a punchbowl, but I think leopards and really all wild cats are pretty magnificent creatures and I won't shoot them.

Gatogordo:

I feel that way about cats too. I just don't have any desire to shoot a leopard or a lion and the only thing I get from seeing a elephant hit the ground is a feeling of sadness. I understand why other guys want to do it and I don't have a problem with it, especially the elephants because I know their population has to be controlled, I just don't want to do it. Now, cape buffalo, that's another deal altogether

Dave

I'm in no way criticizing you or Gato (my yearn to hunt cats is fairly low too, but for different reasons) but I find it interesting how people and hunters in particular assign differing values to various animals. This thread is an outstanding example of that.

I think at some level many hunters feel guilt for the activity, peroid. Then they comparmentalize and look for a redeeming reason for the portion of hunting they choose to engage. A good example is the high fence/free range issue. Either way an animal is dead but some choose to elevate their moral standing by what amounts to an arbitrary boundary.

My personal example: if I go to hell I'm quite sure it will be populated with 7 foot prarie dogs that chew me up and swallow me each day, only to shit me and start all over the next. But that's just me, lol.

it took me 5 hunting trips to finally take a leopard. They ain't the easiest critter to get.
No shortage of them either.
As someone said. "How did you feel after you shot your leopard" Recoil and relief

In just more than a month I'll be hunting leopard with Mokore Safari in Zimbabwe.

I doubt I'll think twice about hunting and possibly taking a cat. I just like to hunt.

I'll pass on farm pheasants, flighted ducks and fenced exotics as it doesn't seem like hunting to me. I can't wait to bait leopard, track lion, decoy canada geese and spot and stalk dall sheep as that seems like hunting to me.

Its hunting I love, no matter what the flavor. Shooting and taking game is fine and good for my menu, but,................

How do you justify shooting a leopard?? To whom must one justify this act??

Most of the posters on this forum are pretty independent, they also seem to be capable of making an informed decision. Since there is no shortage of leopard in most parts of it's range most can't see a compelling reason not to.

Having hunted leopard unsuccessfully, I still really want one (just one) more than any other animal. The only other animals I really yearn for are the lesser kudu(unlikely) a nyasa wildebeest, a grysbok,(I don't know why), and some others that are beyond me financially. I will never tire of the african night and tented camps with the very necessary campfire of mopane, knobthorn, or leadwood.

Adrian

There is a definite conflict between the innate natural human trait to hunt for substanance and the appreciation and respect for wildlife.

The challenge and thrill of the hunt and the great experience of the hunt is somehow diminished by the taking of the majestic animals we hunt.

The reality of life changes as you age and your appreciation for it tempers.

I look forward to future hunts and will take older or problem animals that need to be harvested. My admiration for the animals and their wild habitat is a part of the experience and I think give you a better perspective on life and appreciation of the natural order.

Plus I enjoy the dining experience of the different meats.

If you really feel you have to 'justify' (whatever that REALLY means) hunting any animal you probably shouldn't be hunting at all. The word never enters my concious thought. If it is legal,available and I can afford it and want to do it, I do it. PERIOD

quote:

If it is legal,available and I can afford it and want to do it, I do it. PERIOD

PRECISELY!

quote:

I find it interesting how people and hunters in particular assign differing values to various animals. This thread is an outstanding example of that.

I think at some level many hunters feel guilt for the activity, peroid. Then they comparmentalize and look for a redeeming reason for the portion of hunting they choose to engage. A good example is the high fence/free range issue. Either way an animal is dead but some choose to elevate their moral standing by what amounts to an arbitrary boundary.

Lots of good thought in that.

With some of the animals I have killed over the years, I have had moments of saddness immediately after the kill.

I am not sure if they were all because of the taking of the life of a magnificent animal, or because the hunt was over and that particular chapter of my life was ending.

Some of us may just be better at pushing such feelings back into a corner and not addressing them.

With me, regardless of the animal or bird, when I pick up the rifle/shotgun and now the bow, my intention is to kill whatever I am going after, and I believe if I ever start having feelings of doubt or remorse before the kill, I will in all likely hood, give up hunting altogether.

IMO the only person I have to justify the killing of an animal/bird, ANY animal/bird to is myself, and in the end, the only persons opinion of me that matters is mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

If it is legal,available and I can afford it and want to do it, I do it. PERIOD

PRECISELY!

X2

Add me to that! +3

+4

Not everything that is legal is laudable.

That is as true about hunting as it is about everything else in life.

But, as I have said, there is nothing wrong with leopard hunting, IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by kibokolambogo:
As far as this neck of the woods is concerned there are many....in fact too many to count. It is a great shame that the hunting world has to contend with a small bunch of pen pushing conservationists (some of whom have probably never even been to Africa) who deem to be "experts" on the subject, substantiating their theory to the rare sightings of Leopard in daylight by declaring this feline as being on the brink of extinction and falling into the list of endangered species, regardless of the fact that these animals are known to be secretive, elusive and primarily nocturnal.
I do not discount the possibility that on some tracts of land (sheep and goat ranches in particular) both Leopard and Cheetah may have fallen foul of the rancher's wrath and their numbers decimated.
The rest of wild Africa however has no shortage of Panthera Pardus and the annual quotas released by CITES fall way below the desired number that would effectively come anywhere near maintaining the balance.

The ultimate example of those 'experts' has to be the idiot Australian Government who don't allow any importation of and Elephant or spotted cat product.

Exactly.

That's why I force myself not to get interested in them........I think the art of hunting leopards is fascinating..........but if you can't bring the skin home.........

I feel the same way as Gatogordo, except with me it is about primates and giraffes. I have no problem with others hunting them, but I will never do so.

Bill Quimby

My list of things I don't want to hunt keeps getting longer as the years go by, but those I do want to hunt, better sleep with one eye open, 'cause I'm coming.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
My list of things I don't want to hunt keeps getting longer as the years go by, but those I do want to hunt, better sleep with one eye open, 'cause I'm coming.

I am the exact opposite.

If it is legal, and available, I will shoot it. The only animal I have stopped shooting is a baboon.

Each time I look at one it reminds me of looking into a mirror

A lot of us have "stop" buttons. Many hunters draw the line at felines and canines, perhaps even more folks don't want to hunt elephants. I would prefer not to shoot baboons. But regardless of who does it, leopards NEED TO BE HUNTED. When I first hunted Africa leopards were truly getting scarce in many areas--and were extremely rare in Namibia and South Africa, where there are good populations and great leopard hunting today. Back then leopard coats were high fashion, and there was much trapping going on. Leopards were in trouble. Our Spotted Cat Act and the CITES treaty that followed changed that. When is the last time anyone has seen a woman wearing a leopard coat? It's hard to count leopards, but I have seen a recent estimate of TWO MILLION wild leopards in Africa. As a species they are not endangered, nor even threatened. The total, continent-wide annual CITES quota for exportable sport-hunted leopards is less than 2500, not a significant harvest (1 1/4 percent if the high estimate is close; just 2 1/2 percent if the estimate is off by half! In North America we harvest ALL of our big game animals at much higher percentages)--but the revenue is saving the leopard. Where they are thriving best is in the countries where they are hunted, because of their high value to sport hunters. In my view it's perfectly okay if some of us choose not to hunt them. It's not okay to ignore the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kensco:
My list of things I don't want to hunt keeps getting longer as the years go by, but those I do want to hunt, better sleep with one eye open, 'cause I'm coming.

I am the exact opposite.

If it is legal, and available, I will shoot it. The only animal I have stopped shooting is a baboon.

Same-Same me.
If it's legal and I can get it on license, I will not hesitate. Approximately 50 different African species in my account so far. And if USF&W would comply with CITES and allow Cheetah, I would have him as well.

That information is good to know. Thank you Craig.

how do i justify shooting a leopard? i didn't know i had to!!

+1