Can anyone help with a list of exhibitors at SCI please?

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You're a doll - THANKS!

Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002

Ignored post by shakari posted

Bahati

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Steve

Check http://www.showsci.org/ - It is all there, with floor layouts, auctions, etc

Johan

Posts: 506 | Registered: 29 May 2006

Ignored post by Bahati posted

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Thanks Johan

Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002

Ignored post by shakari posted

500grains

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posted

quote:
Originally posted by Kathi:

Out Of Africa Adventurous Safaris

It is sad to see that SCI is still corrupt.

Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002

Ignored post by 500grains posted

Alan Bunn

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posted

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:

Out Of Africa Adventurous Safaris

It is sad to see that SCI is still corrupt.

Hey Dan,

You don't know the half of it. Even though OoA has been kicked out of Zimbabwe and no longer offers hunts there on their literature, even though Dawie Groenewald has been kicked out of PHASA, and even though the so-called SCI Ethics (?) Committe has been flooded with complaints; Out of Africa is still given free rein to exhibit and donate as they wish. In fact, they are donating a $40,000 elephant hunt to Botswana this year.

At last year's convention, OoA was forced to refund Mike Anczak and Jerry Nave all of their money, so that they would shut up and go away. The Ethics (?) Committee could then end the investigation without any hearings, thereby avoiding any chance that the alledged felonies committed by OoA and top ranking SCI officers would see the light of day.

The Ethics (?) Committee seems to be short on any actual ethics, unless they are publicly forced to take action, but they are long on protecting their rich asshole buddies, who seem to think they are above the law. I can tell you that this chronic behavior really pisses the Feds off to the point where they are now taking personal interest in ALL the parties involved, no matter who they are. The damn thing about the Feds is that they never give up, have a virtually endless budget, and will collect information for years until they get a clear shot.

It is just a matter of time before it will blow up into another David van der Meulen/Jaco du Plessis scandal. The rank and file members will lose millions, but the safari illuminati will have their trophy rooms full of bragging size animals acquired during the rape of Zimbabwe. The only thing we must wait for now is for SCI to give Out of Africa their "Outfitter of the Year" award.

Cheers,

Alan

Cheers,

~ Alan

Life Member NRA
Life Member SCI

email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/

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Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

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Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001

Ignored post by Alan Bunn posted

500grains

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posted

Did any AR readers hunt with OOA in Zim during 2006?

Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002

Ignored post by 500grains posted

Alan Bunn

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In SCI’s Code of Ethics, which I found in their website at this link <http://www.safariclub.org/static/index.cfm?contentID=146>, were the following points of ethical conduct for their members and their organization.

3. To comply with all game laws, in the spirit of Fair Chase, and to influence companions accordingly.

4. To accept my responsibility to provide all possible assistance to game law enforcement officers.

Does this make all local chapters, international chapters, and SCI headquarters legally responsible if they sponsor and promote any hunting company that commits felonies and defrauds SCI members of their money, which they donated to their local chapters?

Shouldn’t this fall under the same laws that will convict a driver to a bank robbery, who is just as guilty as his friend who entered the bank and stole the money?

What are the legal responsibilities of SCI to protect their membership from unscrupulous and fraudulent operators? Should they refund all donation monies and expenses that their members incurred due to SCI negligence?

Finally, their own Code of Ethics binds them to turning over any and all evidence it has in it's possession to U.S. Fish and Wildlife agents, who are pursuing an investigation of an operation notorious for practicing illegal hunting and fleecing SCI’s members!

I believe a good law firm could develop many more arguments suitable for a stunning class action lawsuit! I know many people who have suffered severe economic loss because of what is apparently SCI's malicious disregard for the welfare of its membership!

Alan

Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001

Ignored post by Alan Bunn posted

Bwanamich

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Anyone know whereabouts or have a current contact number/email for David van der Meulen? Pls PM if so.

"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa

hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset

Posts: 3035 | Location: Tanzania - The Land of Plenty | Registered: 19 September 2003

Ignored post by Bwanamich posted

Gator1

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quote:
Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Anyone know whereabouts or have a current contact number/email for David van der Meulen? Pls PM if so.

There are still warrants out for DvD in Tanz. RSA and the US. Maybe other places.

Last reported in the UAE a couple of years ago when the UAE refused to extradite him to Tanz.

Good Luck on that Email.

Alan

Did you get back into the Convention?

By the way, love the new online magazine.

Gator

A Proud Member of the Obamanation

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2

"There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them." George Orwell

Posts: 2753 | Location: Climbing the Mountains of Liberal BS. | Registered: 31 July 2002

Ignored post by Gator1 posted

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posted

That's right Alan, let's turn this into another SCI bashing thread. Your two posts are full of baseless comments. How about a list of "all those" many people you know who have been affected by SCI's malicious disregard for the welfare of it's membership. That way we could contact them and hear the real story and not your hearsay version. I really don't believe SCI would continue to allow OoA to be involved if they were legally convicted of any wrongdoing. Whether they did or didn't do what they have been accused of by some here, it obviously hasn't been proven to have been unethical??

Maybe you could be the one to hire a good law firm and convince us all once and for all how "bad" SCI really is?? Nah, I bet you would just rather sit back and whine and continue to spread your hate and discontent. Question?? With your attitude, why would you want to get back into the Convention?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Posts: 3460 | Location: Jemez Mountains, New Mexico | Registered: 09 February 2006

Ignored post by Larry Sellers posted

Gator1

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posted

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
That's right Alan, let's turn this into another SCI bashing thread. Your two posts are full of baseless comments. How about a list of "all those" many people you know who have been affected by SCI's malicious disregard for the welfare of it's membership. That way we could contact them and hear the real story and not your hearsay version. I really don't believe SCI would continue to allow OoA to be involved if they were legally convicted of any wrongdoing. Whether they did or didn't do what they have been accused of by some here, it obviously hasn't been proven to have been unethical??

Maybe you could be the one to hire a good law firm and convince us all once and for all how "bad" SCI really is?? Nah, I bet you would just rather sit back and whine and continue to spread your hate and discontent. Question?? With your attitude, why would you want to get back into the Convention?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

I'm one of the foremost promoters of SCI but Alan is correct concerning his charges against Out of Africa. A finer set of thugs and thieves have not been bred in the African Professional Hunting Scene.

They have had to pay back more than one donation because they didn't have a legal right to hunt in the area that they sold the hunt in.

The Ethics Committee used to be the most honest of all SCI Committees but Gary Bogner stripped it of it's independence and made a seep hole for Political appointments and Political blackmail. A bunch of useless politicos who only want their expenses paid and a pat on the head from the President.

Posts: 2753 | Location: Climbing the Mountains of Liberal BS. | Registered: 31 July 2002

Ignored post by Gator1 posted

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Gator - My point on this. Alan's or anyone elses "charges" are not worth a grain of salt. They may be based on preceived knowledge, situations, second hand hearsay, or whatever. If "real" charges are brought against OoQ or anyone else for that matter, and the party/parties are found guilty then we have a right to complain about someone still aiding and abating that guilty party. Until that happens, not interested in personal bashing of any organization or individuals.

I would still like to see a list of "abused" parties by SCI so we can get their story.

I do agree Gary Bogner has set back SCI in a lot of different ways and his appointed one, Merle Shepard, is just a GB continuation.

Sorry for prolonging the hyjacking of the thread. Now back to the thread at hand. I wonder what "evil offerings" are forthcoming from Shakari with all of his new found information?? Just kidding Steve!! Glad Kathi produced the facts for you.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Posts: 3460 | Location: Jemez Mountains, New Mexico | Registered: 09 February 2006

Ignored post by Larry Sellers posted

Lhook7

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Check out the dates on this thread. Maybe you could argue the impending banking crisis also.

____________________________________________

"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett.

Posts: 3521 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 25 February 2005

Ignored post by Lhook7 posted

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Lhook - hooked me on that one, thanks. I guess the issues are still out there?? Seems I did see a more recent thread on the subject lately. I still wonder about Steve though!!

Larry Sellers

quote:
Originally posted by Lhook7:
Check out the dates on this thread. Maybe you could argue the impending banking crisis also.

Posts: 3460 | Location: Jemez Mountains, New Mexico | Registered: 09 February 2006

Ignored post by Larry Sellers posted

Mike Smith

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Gator1 has it right.There is no doubt of OOA being banned from Zim and tossed from PHASA. There is also no doubt of them having to pay back on hunts that were not as advertised. There is also no doubt of all the charges made against them at SCI. I am a big SCI supporter but something really stinks here. The ethics committee is just a joke. They cant or wont rule against these guys or much of anyone else for that matter. Some would say it is a lack of evidence, I say it is a lack of conviction. In my book after all that has been proven already it is gulit by association. The committee should grow some balls and take a stand. It is however innocent until proven guilty. That said, one could surely distance themselves until any appearance of impropriety is cleared. We are beating a dead horse here as nothing is going to happen until someone really goes to jail. I just dont understand the lack of a solid grasp of right and wrong. At this point no matter how big a supporter of SCI I am I dont have any respect for the ethics committee. This is especially true in light of the secrecy in which they operate. As members we should have the right to view any and all issues regardless of how resolved. I think this is an area where transparency would benefit us all. Most of us are smart enough to see if someone is being unreasonable or trying to do a hatchet job on someone. They seem to think they are the only ones "smart enough" and the only ones to have enough information to make these decisions. Bullshit. I am sick to death of this crap. I am the kind of guy who appreciates straight forward information. I will make my own conclusions from the information available.

Happiness is a warm gun

Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002

Ignored post by Mike Smith posted

billrquimby

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posted

>>>>>>>Anyone know whereabouts or have a current contact number/email for David van der Meulen? Pls PM if so.<<<<<<

A couple of years ago there was a report floating around that van der Meulen and his wife were seen playing golf at a posh resort in Scotland. It could have been just a rumor.

I know two people who would shoot both of them on sight without hesitation.

Bill Quimby

Posts: 2633 | Location: tucson and greer arizona | Registered: 02 February 2006

Ignored post by billrquimby posted

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posted

Larry,

Hey, don't bring me into this. The thread has been revived after more than two years but it's revival has bugger all to do with me.

Although why and what do you wonder about me?

Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002

Ignored post by shakari posted

Administrator

posted

I LOVE It!

SCI will need to wake up to all the screw ups they get up to, in our name.

All they need do is stop screwing things up under the pretense that they are doing some good, and their name will not be dragged into the dirt every time it is mentioned!

www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000

Posts: 68913 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998

Ignored post by Saeed posted

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The only place I have seen SCI dragged thru the dirt is here! It makes you wonder if there isn't a hidden agenda lurking some where in the weeds, currious??? This is what I have heard, now it may be third or fourth or maybe even fifth handed but what the H*ll that seems to be the norm here. JMO

Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002

Ignored post by Die Ou Jagter posted

Administrator

posted

We had several threads about SCI and what they actually did for African hunting.

No one came up with an answer.

We've had several threads in the past about SCI doing their utmost NOT to do anything about un-ethical outfitters - Out of Africa comes to mind.

It seems as long as SCI is being paid "donations", they are willing to turn a blind eye.

Until we get an answer to what SCI actuallyDOES for African hunting for the money they take, this is not going to stop.

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Posts: 68913 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998

Ignored post by Saeed posted

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posted

Saeed, I know that it is just a

and every one here except for yourself and Steve knows that, eh.

Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002

Ignored post by Die Ou Jagter posted

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posted

Firstly, the reason this thread was revived had bugger all to do SCI and secondly, the reason SCI keep coming up in various threads could possibly be because some of their activities, attitudes and behaviour is/are somewhat dubious.

I'll add that I've had a number of e-mails and PMs from a variety of people on both sides of the fence thanking me for my outspokeness......so it's hardly just Saeed and I that are unhappy with the situation.

More like just that Saeed and I are amongst the very few that feel we can say so!

Ain't free speech wonderful!

Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002

Ignored post by shakari posted

Administrator

posted

Why is it a dead horse?

Every single African PH I know considers SCI behaviour un-ethical - at the very least!

Some of their tactics in giving exhibitor space borders on being criminal.

Again, how come you, or anyone else for that matter, has been able to tell us what SCI does for all the money they extract from African outfitters and PHs?

I think we finally know that our worst fears have been confirmed.

SCI does pretty little.

Their claims, however, are legend!

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Posts: 68913 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998

Ignored post by Saeed posted

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posted

SCI owes Africa NOTHING, they provide a great venue for vendors to ply their trade, how they fix the costs in none of your business plain and simple. If the vendors don't like the method they use or the vendors they take in their show all are free to stay at home. I would think they would stay at home if they feel like Steve. He stays home and I am sure most patrons didn't miss him.

I still think there is a hidden agenda in this subject. That is my opinion and like you I am not going to change it....... why would anyone change.

Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002

Ignored post by Die Ou Jagter posted

retreever

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posted

Here is food for thought, If Out of Africa is so bad why do they have a half page ad in the Feb. 09 issue of SCI's Safari Times pg. 12 ???
They are advertising hunts in Zim, RSA, Botswana, & Tanzania!!!

Mike

Michael Podwika... DRSS bigbores and hunting www.pvt.co.za " MAKE THE SHOT " 450#2 Famars

Posts: 6768 | Location: Wyoming, Pa. USA | Registered: 17 April 2003

Ignored post by retreever posted

Administrator

posted

That sounds fine as long as SCI stops telling us how much they actually do for for African hunting.

I had an email from some one describing SCI management as "third world dictatorship"

I am beginning to think he is right.

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Posts: 68913 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998

Ignored post by Saeed posted

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posted

quote:
Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I still think there is a hidden agenda in this subject. That is my opinion and like you I am not going to change it....... why would anyone change.

OK, I'll come clean. Saeed and I have a secret plan, initially for world domination and eventually total domination of the entire universe.

First we destroy SCI with a worldwide whisper campaign, then with the help of our cunning henchmen the Joker, Mr Freeze and the Penguin, we reactivate SMERSH and invent super mega bugly death rays and then as soon as we've conquered the world, we can move onto the rest of the universe......... YEEEE HAAAAA!!!!!!

Alternatively, we could of course, just be excercising our right to freely express our opinions.

Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002

Ignored post by shakari posted

crane

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posted

Larry- Specifically Alan mentioned SCI behavior and increased attention from the Feds. Exactly how do you take exception to that?

Posts: 1339 | Registered: 17 February 2002

Ignored post by crane posted

Adrian Parham

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posted

SCI was not formed with the express purpose of saving african hunting. Nor is the purpose to funnel large sums of money into the coffers of african outfitters.
All of us know that most states in the U.S. have multiple chapters with many more in Canada and South America. These local chapters know the wants and needs of their area best and how to address them.
How about local chapters in Africa, to solicit help with local problems and projects that are purely local in nature. I and others in my area have tried to be of service when able.
Steve could start a chapter in his locality and make the AR community aware of needs in his area. (hunting area). Maybe funds for game scouts or a well, maybe a school or supplies for one. How cool it would be if AR adopted a school or met another need. Help to buy medicine for a hospital.(pick one)
I am an SCI member and we do have problems, what we really need is more members with lots of answers. They should also be willing to be a part of the solution.

Posts: 414 | Location: Tennille, Ga | Registered: 29 December 2006

Ignored post by Adrian Parham posted

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posted

Adrian,

Thanks for volunteering me but I'm already far too busy for that kind of shit!

I bet Bwanamich is regretting not starting a new thread for his question now.

Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002

Ignored post by shakari posted

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SOLUTION? Why would anyone outside the United States do anything? SCI is the child of the USA and it is our job to solve the problems, eh.

Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002

Ignored post by Die Ou Jagter posted

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posted

quote:
Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
SOLUTION? Why would anyone outside the United States do anything? SCI is the child of the USA and it is our job to solve the problems, eh.

You're right........ but isn't it a shame that it takes such an obscene amount of money from African outfitters in the form of hunt extortions to maintain the problem!

Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002

Ignored post by shakari posted

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posted

They only take what is freely give!

Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002

Ignored post by Die Ou Jagter posted

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posted

quote:
Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
They only take what is freely give!

Extorted, not freely given.

I know an awful lot of people in the African safari industry but I honestly don't know a single one that doesn't deeply resent the extortion process or a single one that would voluntarily choose to donate a hunt if it were not necessary to get a booth.

Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002

Ignored post by shakari posted

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posted

Steve - No offense intended. Not to worry, just joking around a little with you. Thought maybe you had a secret plan for that SCI list you wanted?? I didn't notice the two year time lapse on the thread, cabin fever and late nights I guess. Cheers.

Larry Sellers

quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
Larry,

Hey, don't bring me into this. The thread has been revived after more than two years but it's revival has bugger all to do with me.

Although why and what do you wonder about me?

Posts: 3460 | Location: Jemez Mountains, New Mexico | Registered: 09 February 2006

Ignored post by Larry Sellers posted

Administrator

posted

quote:
I didn't notice the two year time lapse on the thread, cabin fever and late nights I guess. Cheers.

Steve and I have had this planned many years ago.

It is only now that it is coming to fruitation

www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000

Posts: 68913 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998

Ignored post by Saeed posted

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Larry,

No worries!

Saeed,

Now you've let the cat out of the bag...... I guess we'll now have to postpone our evil plans for total domination of the entire solar system for a while now!

Ah well, I guess I'll have to go back to working for a living.......... I was soooooo looking forward to being able to describe myself as a mad dictator!!

Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002

Ignored post by shakari posted

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Steve you couldn't dominate a flea. Again the vendors are not extorted, if you don't want to pay the piper don't dance. As I said just stay at home. I say on another thread that RSA gets most of their hunters from home, why bother with the USA. I just don't understand you'll just keep

Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002

Ignored post by Die Ou Jagter posted