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trans-locating the animals to other 'wild' foreign areas may not work either, may have no security. Regardless of what some people believe, Texas is not a "Wild" area. Just answer this question, do people want everything possible done to save rhinos from extinction, or do they prefer to standby and let the species be poached into extinction? It is a really simple concept. Either any or all options are explored, or we set back and let the species go extinct. Personally I believe our generation, world wide, has made a big enough mess of this planet without depriving future generations of a species as unique as rhinos, but evidently some folks do not care! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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The 'wild' was in contrast to keeping them in a zoo. White rhino will NOT be allowed to become extinct... that is not going to happen. There are too many in captivity, in whatever sense, for that to happen. 'Do everything possible' - no you do not want to do the things that haven't been shown to be in the best interests of the animals. At least they should have a trial run eh? See if they will survive and flourish. No doubt there are plenty of private ranches in southern Africa doing the same. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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You realize the cartels will wipe them out. Until we get a no questions asked shoot on sight order like they have in Africa, this won't work. Shoot on sight won't work here. The liberals would SCREAM. | |||
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Zig, Keep up the good work! "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Thanks Bwanamich  Zig Mackintosh. www.ospreyfilming.com www.hunterproud.com https://www.facebook.com/HuntGeo studio@ospreyfilming.com | |||
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Guys there is a very simple answer to this problem... legalize the trade in rhino horn, if they are not going to do that there will be none left in 20 years, every rhino with in A 50 miles radius of my ranches have being poached in the last 3 years...either that or try and change the ridiculous eastern culture...GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE! Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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Matt, if you think they will not get extinct you should do some research mate... they are already in decline more are being poached than there are being born so they are already heading that way, poachers fly around with choppers my friend there is no place they are safe trust me... Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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There are only two ways to end the poaching: 1. Get rid of the rhino. 2. Get rid of the Chinese and Vietmanese.  ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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There is a reason you see more Dama Gazelle, Addax, and Scimitar Horned Oryx in Texas than in their native range and it's because of the profit motive. The question then becomes, "Can that profit motive overcome the greed of poachers?" Well, it damned sure has a better chance of doing so in Texas than in Africa...even with the Mexican cartels. In the big picture, it just makes sense to diversify the number of places where rhino live AND can be VERY strongly protected. A herd or two in Oz, a few in TX/NM/AZ, and several in huge areas like BVC in Africa. First thing you learn in business school...in a world of uncertainty, diversify! Frankly, I would advocate hunting them on a place like King Ranch once numbers reach a certain point. I would also legalize trade so the current traffickers in illegal horn could simply bid on legal "hunts" and sell the results to whoever they damned well please. Only then will the price of Rhino hunts tend toward the "natural price" and only then will the amount of money flowing to ranchers (hopefully on various continents) be sufficient to insulate against whatever illegal trade might still exist. Prohibition is killing this species, plain and simple. | |||
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No, they would not be safe from poachers! I'm sure that some gangster will see the money-making potential, and exploit it! But, and this is a BIG B-U-T, at least the poachers and their paymasters will not be safe from prosecution by the relevant police authority! Here in terrorist ANC Ruled South Africa the big political clout of the poacher ringleaders makes them, and to a large degree even the poacher with a rifle in his hands, safe from prosecution by the very corrupt South African Police and Prosecuting Authority. By and large I do think that rhino will stand a very significantly better chance of survival in Texas than in South Africa! The vast majority of our politicians and police officers are simply to corrupt for there to be any hope of properly protecting the rhino here in our country! Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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There will always be some protected in zoos and very secure locations. If we dont believe they can be protected in secure areas then the Texas project wont protect them either A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Just one question for a point of reference. Have you ever been to Texas and if so have you ever visited one of the ranches like the King or the YO or Sandstone Mountain or Fossil Rim? | |||
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I will answer this, as it wasn't asked me in the previous thread where I brought up similar concerns as Matt has. Yes, I have been on the King ranch, and a few others in the 10-75k acre range. Many of them had severe problems with gangs and cartels getting on the property and collecting peyote buttons, several had had ranch hands murdered. This was in the early 2000's when cartel violence was considerably less than now. Add in the astronomical difference in price for rhino horn over peyote I absolutely think that poaching will be a concern. | |||
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So, letting rhinos become extinct is a viable solution? | |||
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No, Crazy, what we should do is take all the confiscated horn, poison it and reintroduce it into the black market supply so that everyone that uses it dies. That should decrease the demand. | |||
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I have been doing my best to see as much of Texas as I can, every year over the last decade or more. I was in Amarillo and Lubbock just a few months ago. I have traveled to about thirty other US states too. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Matt if the only place were animals exits is zoos and a secure spot here and there that are extinct in my opinion... once again legalize the trade the only option Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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I understand - but extinct is extinct, no more. That will not be allowed to happen, not even in RSA I think. Lots more rhino will be killed in the meantime though. You guys could well be right. Hoping the Asians stop consuming or force them to - is a waste of time. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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No CHC, the situation isn't a binary one where you either put rhinos in Texas or they go extinct. There are many other options, some more drastic than others as well. Just because people urge caution on your proposed best solution doesn't mean that we are apathetic. It might mean that we see legitimate concerns that need addressed before pouring tens of millions into one idea. As for the math, the article states 1,000 rhinos. A smaller relocation effort that was posted recently moving rhinos from South Africa to Botswana iirc stated that transport cost~ $45k/rhino. How much more expensive would shipping them all the way to Texas be? 5x? 10x? At 10x that is nearly half a billion dollars!!! Could you not just as easily hire ex US marines to baby sit rhinos in their native territory for similar dollar values without compromising the reproductive potential of latter generations? Legalizing the trade might be the right answer although I'm concerned at the lack of positive effect in poaching displayed after the last two legal sales in '98 & '09. | |||
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As I understand it, there are already several herds, disease free herds, of Cape Buffalo in Texas, according to the Texas Parks and Wildlife person I spoke to several years of years ago. Why not rhino? Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Actually, the liberals might be okay with putting the lives of endangered animals before those of humans! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Trust CHC to tell it like it is!! | |||
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Not telling it like it is, just interjecting a Truism concerning the Individual Human and its opinions/beliefs/ideologies and where it all fits in, in the overall scheme of the daily functioning of the Planet as a whole. This is all irrelevant to the discussion, which is about peoples attitudes/thoughts/opinions/beliefs concerning the future or lack there of for a fellow species on our planet that has been here longer than us, but thru our species own greed and misplaced/misguided beliefs, are going to exterminate, only making our own extinction come a little faster. All my signature line is, Are Words Typed On To A Computer Screen, and ANYONE that is bothered by them seriously needs to re-examine their own grasp on reality and their actual place in the overall scheme of Life! The first thing EVERY human should do is learn to stop taking themselves so seriously, because at the end of the day, the only ones any of us really matter too, are ourselves and those few people that are closest too us. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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