Does anybody here have info or a link that shows the number of countries where elephant hunting is legal and where ivory is legal to import into the USA? And also the number of elephants that are killed legally per year in these countries.

The list of countries that we can import ivory from.

1. Namibia
2. South Africa

I wonder what the total quota from these two countries is? I bet it is less than what Botswana was.

I do have some hope for Botswana coming back on line. I also hold a little hope for Zambia ... maybe.

I got the following information on cites quotas from the Boddington on Elephant DVD.

Tanzania-200
South Africa-100
Namibia-90
Mozambique-40
Zimbabwe-500
Zambia-20
Botswana-300
Gabon-50
Cameroon-80

That gives a total cites quota for the whole continent of 1380 elephants.

I am not sure what year the DVD came out. I think I bought it in 2011. The quotas may have changed by now.

quote:

Originally posted by cjfoster:
I got the following information on cites quotas from the Boddington on Elephant DVD.

Tanzania-200
South Africa-100
Namibia-90
Mozambique-40
Zimbabwe-500
Zambia-20
Botswana-300
Gabon-50
Cameroon-80

That gives a total cites quota for the whole continent of 1380 elephants.

I am not sure what year the DVD came out. I think I bought it in 2011. The quotas may have changed by now.

I think Botswana is now 400 and Mozambique 80.

quote:

Originally posted by cjfoster:
I got the following information on cites quotas from the Boddington on Elephant DVD.

Tanzania-200
South Africa-100
Namibia-90
Mozambique-40
Zimbabwe-500
Zambia-20
Botswana-300
Gabon-50
Cameroon-80

That gives a total cites quota for the whole continent of 1380 elephants.

I am not sure what year the DVD came out. I think I bought it in 2011. The quotas may have changed by now.

Thank you. This was what I was looking for. I guess I should have said from a few years back when one could still hunt elephants! Interesting how many are from Zim and I would have thought Tanzania would have had more though I realize the cost involved in hunting there. A mere 1380 that year overall. No wonder African(elephant) hunters have little clout in the U.S. government. Comparisons were made to the NRA. Everybody is scared that "Obama is going to take your guns" but not too many Americans are worried if they are ever going to go elephant hunting. For an example I am having some yard sprinkler system work done by a guy I know who is an avid deer hunter. When I told him it was my dream to hunt elephants he asked me if they were almost extinct. It is hard to compete with constant bombardment from Animal Planet and NatGeo.

RAC……… further to your topic. Given the current CITES quotas from the various countries, what would really be interesting to know is a further breakdown of the numbers with respect to actual exports. Of the allowable exportable quotas, how many elephant were actually exported each year and of the export numbers, how many went to the US?

As you noted, it is hard to get anyone whipped up over what amounts to a handful of exported trophies for individuals who are economically able to partake in this type of hunting. Your average hunter out there in any country hasn't got a chance in hell of ever hunting elephant or lion and surprisingly large numbers are not even interested in it even if they could afford it in the first place.

There are millions of average every day hunters out there, yet SCI has trouble increasing their membership in any meaningful way beyond 50-55,000 members. It is all related.

Hunters are a small percentage of the total population and of the hunters that exist, a tiny fraction of one percent are the ones who participate in hunting dangerous game of any kind, never mind the big dollar items like elephant and lion. I can tell you right now that if I polled all the hunters that I grew up with as a resident hunter on this issue, maybe one out of every 50 would be concerned about this, a handful would be indifferent and the rest would be in the "we shouldn't hunt elephants" category.

We tend to believe that hunters have the same view of things that we do, but it is not the case and really has a lot to do with the fact that as individuals we tend to surround ourselves with others of a like mind.

In the end the masses who decide our fate have trouble getting past the killing of the elephants, no matter what the rational is for it. If it was otherwise the culling would not have ended in various southern African countries to prevent overpopulation and the destruction to the habitat it causes. It is/was a contentious issue with Africans, so how do we expect it to sit well with those on other continents.

Safari2

quote:

I think Botswana is now 400 and Mozambique 80.

Botswana banned hunting, so quota should be ZERO.
Same for Zambia.

quote:

Originally posted by jbderunz:
Safari2

quote:

I think Botswana is now 400 and Mozambique 80.

Botswana banned hunting, so quota should be ZERO.
Same for Zambia.

Wrong..makes no difference if they ban hunting they still have the CITES quota(s).

What is the statistics for US elephant hunters compared to rest of the world?
50% ? more ? less ?
That is probably more important as related to the import ban.
Then we will know how that will affect operators in Zim and Tanz.

http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/quotas/index.php


RAC,

Click on the link, then whatever year you are interested in to get the export quota for that year.

That link shows 0 quota for Botswana or Zambia!

Here is what I came up with:

Cameroon-80
Namibia-90
RSA-150
Tanzania-200
Zimbabwe-500

I might have missed a country but scanning through the list, this appears to be it in 2014.

You are correct..I don't see where the Mozambique quota has been issued either.

So if there are 700K elephants in Africa, that means less than 0.15% are huntable. Good stat to use with the antis.

What % are taken on PAC permits and what % are poached?

I wonder how much money is now not going to pay salaries, anti-poaching efforts etc?

It has to be in the millions.

The number of poached elephants is probably way over any quota. Also the number of elephants killed for meat by the governments go way over hunting quotas. In an area I was hunting in the government was shooting trophy bulls for meat. Now that the US has banded ivory imports you will see a lot more poaching going on.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
The number of poached elephants is probably way over any quota. Also the number of elephants killed for meat by the governments go way over hunting quotas. In an area I was hunting in the government was shooting trophy bulls for meat. Now that the US has banded ivory imports you will see a lot more poaching going on.

Thanks for posting...Interesting indeed

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
So if there are 700K elephants in Africa, that means less than 0.15% are huntable. Good stat to use with the antis.

What % are taken on PAC permits and what % are poached?

Of interest, 700k elephants. Where did you get that number? Was that in the CITES-list? I know there are over 200 k in Botswana (Tsavo in the making), but really unsure about the rest of the countries. Would love to see some figures even though it`s difficult to get it right now with the rampant poaching.