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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/...-worth-millions.html ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | ||
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Sounds a lot like the breeding of big whitetail bucks in the US. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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I have asked over and over on this forum for anyone to justify the cash flows from a $5 mil. breeding stud buff. Ain't a damn race horse. Can create buff that in 7-10 year will be shot for $20K-30K. My guess is you have "clever" guys in South Africa laundering/evading taxes thru game ranching. Mike | |||
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Not going to accuse anyone of anything illegal, but I question the whole "game breeding" industry. Especially when it comes to buffalo, my addiction. Any old bull works for me. A big spread is great, big bosses are even better now, but old, worn horns are what really matter. You can't do that on a farm. It simply won't work economically. You can't raise an animal for 13 years and have him kill younger upcoming bulls in his lifetime, all on your fenced operation designed to sell a trophy and still make money. Regardless of species, the same is basically true unless it is a pretty large area and we are talking plains game species who have a limited range. Not intending to pick a fight, just not my cup of tea. JMHO. Many may disagree. | |||
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Agree ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I will happily hunt plains game in South Africa, but I won't hunt lion or buffalo there. But, I think we should bare in mind the great strides made by game farmers in South Africa, and good luck to them. The bit I am not too happy about is the farmed bred animals transported to neighboring countries and shot as free range animals to go in the SCI record book. | |||
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+1 - well stated. Once again you and I are on the same page. | |||
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Saeed , there's a difference between hunting on a game ranch or hunting an open system like the APNR which forms part of a greater reserve in excess of 5 million acres. I realize you express your personal view though. As far as this thread is concerned its really not fair to categorize all South African hunts under the same umbrella. The game breeding industry reminds me of what happened in Texas ( probably elsewhere also ) I think it was in the 80's with the selling of Ostrich breeding pairs at ridiculously high prices. As long as other new breeders with $ signs in their eyes were buying , all was well. Until the new breeder market was saturated and everything fell apart and they were worthless. You are of course 100 % correct about the trophy animal on demand thing in our neighboring countries also. | |||
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I have taken a single buff on a ranch on the RSA. The buff was taken after following it 18 miles in extreme heat. I would absolutely call that fair chase. It certainly required more effort that the other 42 buff I have taken where there were no fences. The problem is, as I see it, that all ranches are not the same. Some would amount to executions, others would not. I also don't see how this could ever be profitable. There has to be more to this than meets the eye. I have been asked to invest in breeding buff before. I always said no way without hesitation. | |||
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Remember this. Tulip bulb bubble Full time professional trapper | |||
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Totally agree! I've experienced both in SA, there's really no comparison. There are some real exceptions in SA for excellent DG hunting. | |||
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+1  | |||
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Why does RSA have to justify their game ranching industry to us or anyone else? Game ranching is a win-win-win for game-hunters-economy. There is likely more game in RSA and Namibia than ever (and increasing), which contrasts sharply with Kenya, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botwana, Angola, Zambia, and the like. The future looks bright for RSA and Namibia. Why criticize what's working? | |||
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Larry, Aaron, Acdley and others: I'm not saying there are not fair chase buffalo hunts in South Africa. That is simply not true. Rare, but available. Larry, I've never hunted buffalo in South Africa so it does not surprise me that you had a great fair chase hunt for a good bull. You have far more experience on buffalo than I, or probably almost anyone on this site. Your property owner, on the other hand, had no incentive to let an animal mature beyond his prime trophy quality. Perhaps he allowed that (I've known some quirky landwowners who weren't interested in maximizing profits). But most places, an old male who has lost most interest in breeding is just another animal grazing limited grass. They won't last long if the rancher/farmer considers economics. Aaron, I assume you are referring to places next to Kruger. That, of course is a real exception. | |||
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Trapper Tom: I'm a rather slow beast, but rather curious. While that means I'd probably get trapped, I really don't understand the tulip link. Could you please explain? | |||
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Tulip mania was the first well documented (of many to come) financial bubbles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania A worthless object like a tulip become a national obsession and price went parabolic. Then they burst. Stud Cape Buffalo for $5 mil. is the South African version of a bubble. An asset whose value is not justified by the cash flow it generates. Often justified on selling to a greater fool at a higher price down the road. Mike | |||
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Got it Beretta. What happened 400 years ago with flowers might be repeating itself with livestock. I'll have to contemplate that. | |||
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By the way, I'd never pay 5 million anything (other than Tanzanian shillings) for any animal. Not without a really good business plan. | |||
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IDK, this buff I took in RSA is obviously past his prime trophy quality with worn tips and a huge boss worn smooth. Of course, he was never a 40"+ bull but this old boy was certainly allowed to live past his prime on a RSA ranch.  The point being that there is a HUGE range of buffalo hunting experiences available in RSA ranging from a "turkey shoot" on very small properties to a very challenging and often frustrating hunt on the larger ranches. And I'll say this particular bull gave me a great hunting experience, on a fenced ranch to boot. I've hunted ranch buff in RSA and wild buff in Zim, numerous times for each. They are different animals. Where the wild buff on a concession will somewhat tolerate you while tracking and working the herd, temporarily pausing to face you and look you over while you do the same to them, the ranch variety KNOW exactly what you are and what you are about. The slightest sound, sight, or smell of human and they are off to the races without a nano second's hesitation. I've hunted those RSA ranch buff several times and can honestly say that's been some of the most fun I've had on safari. Put those skittish ranch buff on a 10,000 acre tract and you might go a week or so without so much as a single sighting. Point being ... don't underestimate the quality of the experience, assuming of course a proper set up with adequate acreage. Put them on a 1,000 acre fenced area and it's just shooting cattle. All that said, I also have never been able to find justification for some of the $$$s being paid for breeder bulls. Definitely a bubble. | |||
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Asset/Financial bubbles keep repeating - human nature. Buffalo might be the latest but I bet it wont be the last. Internet/telcom stocks, sub prime, us real estate, japanese real estate, japanese stocks, the list never ends. Stud Cape Buffaloes join some illustrious companions. Mike | |||
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High prices for breeding stock of legitimate species such as buffalo is understandable. I suppose. Yes there are people, not to be confused with hunters who will buy their way into the record book. For me personally it goes against the principles of Free Chase. The Game Breeding industry is however busy building another house of cards. They are obsessed with breeding colour variants of many plains game species, and every Tom Dick and Harry with a small patch of land is climbing onto this bandwagon. Some critics have even accused this industry of breeding circus animals, i.e. freaks The auction house, Vleissentraal’s price list reads as follows; yellow blesbok ram – R319 000 copper blesbuck ram – R900 000 White saddleback blesbuck ram – R2 250 000 king wildebeest bull – R3 850 000 golden wildebeest bull R769 091 Other colour varients are being sold; the so called golden gemsbuck, black impala, black saddle-backed impala and even a coffee coloured springbuck ram sold for R3 400 000. Local hunters spend 10 billion rand a year on day fees, animals and travel, and are by and large meat hunters. Foreign Trophy hunters spend 1 billion rand annually on day fees and the trophy animal, and this figure excludes ancillary costs. Many will want to register their trophys. Who will be the end consumer of these animals once the breeders market is saturated? | |||
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Nice pic Todd, good to see you posting.jc | |||
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Good to see you back Todd. And a much better trophy that those that go with inches and don't look half as impressive. | |||
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I have a guaranteed way for the bubble to burst. I will invest in the buff. That should bring the prices down in short order! | |||
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Beretta answered it for me. Full time professional trapper | |||
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Full time professional trapper | |||
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Well said that man. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I would say VERY well said! What was said for buffalo hunting "behind a high fence" is also very true for other plains game hunting. Sure there is a lot of "Put & Take" shooting going on, both on small fenced areas, but sometimes even on large fenced and even un-fenced properties. But on't throw everything away just because there are some who bring clients under the wrong impression about what and how they will hunt. As Todd said so well: You can have a wonderful hunting experience behind a high fence! In good hunting. Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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The fact that Cape buffalo in RSA are fetching a very price is good and bad news. The good news in that game animals are highly valued, and in a world dominated by humans and money, IF IT PAYS IT STAYS. Thus, I think game animals - for now - will be staying and increasing in number. The bad news is that in RSA trophy fees are getting quite expensive. On my last trip to RSA the fee for a Cape buffalo was $14,000. Other fees were also high. I hope RSA game ranchers don't price themselves out of the market!! IMO, game ranchers need to reduce trophy fees. | |||
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Let me get a borrow before you invest  Hunting farms/ranches in South Africa have been an home run. I think they are up multi-fold between 2000-2015 even adjusted for any currency depreciation. I know one former South African who was so worried about crime ect that be decided to buy a 2K acre hunting preserve in Nebraska. He should have gone back to his old homeland. Limpopo would have been a home run. Still the prices for stud buffalo make little sense. $5 mil. for a breeding stud buff ! Mike | |||
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Todd: That is a very nice old bull. To me, Old is the most important quality. Like those slick bosses. | |||
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Shooting fish in a barrel is still shooting fish in a barrel, no matter the size of the fish. Much better and more satisfying to hunt and kill one that is wild, and in the wild, on his own turf. Like Todd's. Give me a shot at an ancient bull like his, anytime, over some half tame but bigger bull, bred to be shot in a barrel, no matter how much bigger he may be. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I hope they price themselves out of the market sooner than later. Even the fees for "biltong bokke" has become exorbitant. If this bubble burst tomorrow most of the hunters in RSA will "jabula". | |||
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My other question I have for a lot of these "super breeders" is that: When does conservation outweigh the greed for money......(or vice versa) I had a meeting with one not long ago, the only time he smiled was when he gloated on how much he got for his black impala rams...... We hunt some of these huge properties, and we are pleased to be associated with them, but for the others.....they simply p*&£ss me off!!! Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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I hunted buff outside Kruger and it was a workout in comparison to Zim Every time we got on some Bulls the damn lions would push them and then elephants would get in the way Tough tough hunt " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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It is a simple question of economics, Everybody that predicts this bubble is going to burst, and wile they say it the price goes up... I am A outfitter and a rancher the bottom line is if you have 5000 or 6000 acres it makes much more scene having game that makes money on it and trust me if you were that farmer with black impala rams you would also be smiling at the moment Regarding the local hunters I am sorry for them but for way to long the ranchers got the same money for A kudu and impala hell guys be happy for the ranchers that they finally start making good money. And when this bubble " burst" buffalo will still be worth more than cattle. I started investing in buffalo 7 years ago and will keep on doing so up to know it paid of. Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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Guys sorry there is a couple typo errors in previous post bloody touch screens... Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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Agreed Philip SA and Namib brought African hunting to middle class Americans Everyone else rode on their coattails " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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