Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should. The PH backed him up with WHAT??? A rifle. If they were serious and not stunting, the PH would be carrying a long bow.

I agree. Just posting it as I found it while shopping around on the net. Thought it was odd.

God forbid that someone did something w/o the approval of the AR elite - and it even worked!

What's the world coming to?

Brent

Excellent,,have like crossbows a long time,,even have try one of my Rhade models on deer,,,glad to see a hunt on larger animals work out

I met Bill and Kathi Troubridge at the Buckarama in Atlanta three years ago. They are devoted to hunting, and make a fine product. I have one of their crossbows, and it has taken deer and wild hogs for me. In addition to the elephant Excalibur crossbows have taken cape buffalo, and many plains game species.

Wonder if it was one of them high dollar Double barrel crossbow?

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should. The PH backed him up with WHAT??? A rifle. If they were serious and not stunting, the PH would be carrying a long bow.

So, who died and elected you GOD?

It seemed a clean kill under ethical circumstances to me. Alan Vincent knew these folks and told us about the hunt. He seemed satisfied that these folks were ethical hunters. I'm not sure, but I think he (or his company) did the videography.

I am not sure it's the same folks, as Alan could not remember their names, but it was a man and his wife, and they were all fired up to get the first elephant with a crossbow.

If you look at his website (on the forum) he talks about 1200 grain arrows and 130 ft-lbs KE. That is legal energy and weight for elephant in any country that regulates bow hunting for elephant.

That was just about a perfect set-up for a bow shot. Cross bows have never turned me on, but I don't have a problem with someone who chooses to use one.

I wonder how far the elephant traveled after the shot? Probably not too far if it was a good heart shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should. The PH backed him up with WHAT??? A rifle. If they were serious and not stunting, the PH would be carrying a long bow.

So, who died and elected you GOD?

It seemed a clean kill under ethical circumstances to me. Alan Vincent knew these folks and told us about the hunt. He seemed satisfied that these folks were ethical hunters. I'm not sure, but I think he (or his company) did the videography.

I am not sure it's the same folks, as Alan could not remember their names, but it was a man and his wife, and they were all fired up to get the first elephant with a crossbow.

If you look at his website (on the forum) he talks about 1200 grain arrows and 130 ft-lbs KE. That is legal energy and weight for elephant in any country that regulates bow hunting for elephant.

You don't have to be GOD to have an opinion about it!

The indigies have been plinking elephant for a long time. But typically it was with poisoned tipped arrows and then ran like hell.

Hey, if it is legal, it's their money BUT I don't consider it playing the game fair. If something goes wrong it is by definition that the PH must bale the client out. If the client screws up the shot, it is also the responsibility of the client to bale himself out if possible, but that possibility pretty much goes out the window with a bow.

Besides that, one should brain an elephant, eliminating what I consider undue and unneccesary pain from body shots.

If my opinion makes me GOD, so be it!

As Forrest said, that was about as perfect a set up for a bow shot as one could imagine.

Would I do it? No.

Do I have a problem with this guy having done it, under those circumstances, with the full concurrence and participation of a licensed and rifle-armed PH? Also no.

I would like to have seen the post-mortem, however.

BTW, by all accounts, God doesn't have opinions.

As far as I know, PH's with clients after elephant always carry a rifle and will fire if need be, regardless of the weapon the client is using. I am sure people with .375's make bad shots on the animals, as do folks with .500's and bows.....

I am not a bowhunter, but I support them as they are hunters also with more of a history than us with rifles...... And with the climate of anti hunting..... we best all stick together...... just a different perspective.

That didn't look like 15 to 18 yards to me. It looked twice that far. Maybe it was the angle. At 50 feet I would have thought the elephant would have appeared much bigger.

Anyway, it didn't do anything for me. Not my bag.

Hell I'm not God and never professed to be so. If you don't like my comments say so so I can put it in the trash with the rest of the shit that is worthless. I still say that it is a bull shit stunt. Next is the guy that wants to prove it to the world that a .22 long rifle in eminently expert hands of himself can kill the (fill in the blank) with one precicely placed pellet. What makes us vulnerable to bad press is the constant stunting we do in the name of sportsmanship. If it weren't done to sell a product or the idea of a product then it wouldn't get done. It shows disrespect for the game and the game animal. If you want MY respect, use the PROPER tool for the job and use it well and do your best for a quick clean kill. That is the difference between sportsmanship and a stunt. Where are the game laws that prevent such crap like the minimum legal caliber being 375 H&H or such. This reminds me of the Arkansas guys that go to hog wild in Oklahoma to kill hogs with bowie knives. They run the hogs with dogs until bayed, drink a fifth of Jack Black, and go in for the kill. Some get hurt and some even kill a hog. The episode is about his being MAN enough to go one on one with the pig but it is not hunting and definitely not about sportsmanship.

lb404, I know your steamed but, breath deep,,don't let your anger at what you consider a stunt, make you look like a bully,

Not every one agrees on this board or else where what is or isn't the right way to hunt,,and to add to the argument about hunting hogs with knifes,is beneth you.

YOu stated your opinon, and should have left it there.

I respect every ones opinon here who has been to Africa, and read all postings when I can.

But at lest this hunter with a crossbow, as far as we can see didn't have his PH shoot the Elephant in the leg first as some other so called great bow hunters have done in the past.

And for the record I hut hogs with knifes and I don't drink period.

David thanks for your line. I'm not angry or a bully. Common sense isn't too common anymore!

lb404,

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but what comes across from your original post, then was reinforced in spades by your post quoting your own post - (with no added information) was the very clear implication that not only do you feel you have the right to judge the acts of others, but that you also feel a moral imperative to force your judgement on others. It truly comes across as at least a Royal Decree if not an Olympic Condemnation.

Whenever anybody starts telling me how to live my life I feel a sudden urgent need to on their leg.

I am a sometimes bowhunter. I don't much like crossbows, but I'd no more put down a crossbow hunter than I'd put down a hound hunter. If we we don't all hang together we'll all hang separately as our rights get eroded by antis who are looking to use statements like yours to support their agendas.

When called to task on your judgemental first post you back it up with attacks on other sportsmen - a non sequitur that makes Archie Bunker look like a mental giant.

I've always thought your WERE GOD Will?

so don you got a little ratteled? You gotta know what is moral or not to see the issue. You are clueless. I made a statement of fact that just because is can be done doesn't mean it should be done. You made it personal, like most jerks without a compass would try. If you are conscerned about how the antis would react to this thread then we should probably try using the proper tools to get the job done. We can all hang together or hang separately. Bow hunting in illegal for dangerous game in most if not all countries in Africa. Did you know that? I think Archie was from Mason, Ohio also ???? Do you think that a crossbow or a pistol is the proper tool for hunting dangerous game? Do what you think is right and so will I. I will use the right tool for the job, others can use pea shooters if they want. Don't slam me for saying it is bull shit. I have seen too many bow shot deer carcases in the field to believe any bow is the proper tool for dangerous game.

l404,
There is no doubt in my mind your post was intended to denigrate the crossbow hunter - not just express your opinion. That he did his homework and had the skills to make it all works proves it was far from a stunt. For YOU it would be a stunt. But not for him.

Brent

Isn't the PH in that video Karl Mason? I had dinner and lunch with Karl in Bulawayo in June. He's a great guy and a wonderful PH. I certainly would feel safe hunting with him. I hunted with his twin brother Kirk Mason on that trip. Karl had a group from Leupold and Cabelas in hunting with Jim Carmichael.

Brent, you may think you are right. Not important to me. We may argue the merits of one caliber over another on the African forum but all of the ones we discuss are more than adequate for the job. This just gives rise to more dumb stunts to try and prove a point. Have fun! I certainly am.

By the way. Kirk Mason (who I've hunted with) and I'm sure Karl (the guy in the video) has guided more than 2 dozen bowhunters to elephant bulls, without incident. In fact, just before I got there, he had a bowhunter kill a 48 pounder that was not hit particularly well, but only went 250 yards. Kirk said of all his bow kills that one went the furthest after the shot. While I'm not weighing in on the debate here, I can't imagine a crossbow would be any less lethal than a solocam compound. (Kirk has never guided a recurve or longbow hunter)

for one thing the Anti's dont care if you use pea shooter, bow, pistol, rifle of a missile launcher, so that point is mute. some people hate the use of bows no matter what and you will never change their mind in their opinion its not the right way, who they are to say i have no idea, why they feel the need to let the whole world know is a mystery also. I guess once some people get on their soap box it takes nothin less then a bull elephant to get them off of it.

This thread has picked up some momentum. I posted the link simply because I'd never heard of crossbow hunting for ele. If the video is 100% legit, then I don't see the problem. The bolt entered the vitals and killed the ele which only made it 50 yards, if memory serves correctly.

I'm not for or against it, but in this case, a crossbow certainly fit the description of the "right tool" for the job.

quote:

one should brain an elephant, eliminating what I consider undue and unneccesary pain from body shots.

Wow! this is a wild statement. Will, do you feel this way about all animals or just elephants?

As for the crossbow, I do not consider it a "stunt." I think hunting elephant without a PH backing you up with an adequate rifle would be foolish regardless of the tool choice of the client.

I wanted to state before I dont have any problem with it either 50 yards and dies no its not a brain shot but comon, many of ele have went much further after being shot with a high power rifle. This PH is pretty reputable and if he didnt have a problem with it neither do I.

I have no problem with some one using a bow or cross bow to hunt DG. I would never do it as in my opinion I could never claim the kill as mine unless I was capable of handling all possible encounters that might occur. I would never try to follow up a wounded DG animal with one of these weapons and put my PH, trackers and game scout into unnessary danger.

I do disagree with Will on only head shots being appropriate for elephant. You could make a case for that view when hunting single bulls or groups of bulls as any other bulls are most likely to beat feet to a far corner of the area once the shooting starts. That is not the case when hunting bulls in a cow herd or especially hunting cows whether tuskless or not. It almost always happens that when a cow is dropped to the shot in a herd situation the remainder of the herd stays around and gets into a definate tizzy. They will look for the source of the danger and will charge if they find you. The cow most likely to charge is the matriarch of the herd. If you have to kill her as often happens the herd has lost their leader and this leads to a definate social problem for the herd. I believ this is the reason that Ganyana is not suportive of hunting cows. If you take a heart/lung short in this situation the herd tends to run off with the wounded and dying animal but continues to run when it falls. In my opinion it is much more sportsman like to take the heart/lung shot in this situation and greatly reduce the chances of having to shoot an extra elephant, most likely the herd matriarch. Although I prefer using the brain shot on elephants, on my last one a cow, I deliberately took the heart/lung shot for the above reasons.

465H&H