Friends,

I know its been predicted before but thankfully has not come to pass. I am just wondering however if we are among the last hunters ever to hunt the big 5 and other big-game in Africa and elsewhere. With every passing year, it seems to become more difficult to hunt. This year we lost the Polar bear, African lion is hanging on...one wonders what's next! In terms of countries, Zim's in a mess, we hear rumors about Botswana closing altogether, South African farms are being taken away steadily. Travelling with guns is a pain and importing trophies is becoming more difficult.

Oh yes and the economy has put a dent in many of our plans for the next few years!

Just wondering........

At the risk of seeming to be somewhat irreverent, which isn't the intention at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

I don't know about hunting in Africa, but I do feel that by 2020, hunting as we have known it will be gone, and what is left, will be nothing like what we experienced in the past. JMO.

Naaaaah....by 2025 Civilization as we know it will be gone and hunting will be a required for survival...

Reddy
I think you are reading too many news reports. I know that a lot of what you guys hear in the US and UK is sensationalized to sell papers or push ratings.

If animals decline to the point where they cannot be sustainably hunted then they must be protected. There will be lions to hunt for many years to come but not every tom or harry will be able to "order one up".

South African farms are not being taken away. if anything there is more positive growth in the country than there has been in the last 40 years. more land is being preserved and the government is paying more than market rates for the land they buy.
The new black owners are not a bunch of nitwits with three goats and a chicken, land is being entrusted to tribal councils and made to work for them through the investment of time and money by foreign and local business people and in many cases the farmers who the land was bought from.

As a farmer having a massive lump sum of cash paid to you and then being able to lease your land back on a 99 year renewable lease is a pretty damn good deal. Many of the guys I am in contact with see this as the second birth for south african agriculture, that includes game farming.

Whether it is an indicator or not, I have in the last month been offered 3 large concession areas in Mozambique and Angola. 2 of the three were agricultural demarcations that have been converted back to eco tourism and wilderness land. Tourism is feeding people right now, so long as you and your fellow hunters keep coming to Africa and protecting the wildlife, that is where the decisions are made.
If you want to be a good conservationist then introduce as many new people to African Hunting and ensure that its profitability carries it through into the next century.

Good hunting.
Ian

quote:

Naaaaah....by 2025 Civilization as we know it will be gone and hunting will be a required for survival...

You could be right about that.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Naaaaah....by 2025 Civilization as we know it will be gone and hunting will be a required for survival...

I wonder how long it takes to eat an ele.

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Naaaaah....by 2025 Civilization as we know it will be gone and hunting will be a required for survival...

I wonder how long it takes to eat an ele.

One word....J-E-R-K-E-Y....

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Naaaaah....by 2025 Civilization as we know it will be gone and hunting will be a required for survival...

Nothing like anarchy

quote:

Originally posted by Blair338/378:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Naaaaah....by 2025 Civilization as we know it will be gone and hunting will be a required for survival...

Nothing like anarchy

Won't be anarchy...the animals will be in charge...

You and I will be right then

As I've heard Sir Craig of Boddington say many times it's been fashionable for some time now to predict the end of hunting especially African hunting. And yet after 30 years of people doing so here we are. I'm sure the hunting available in Africa 30 years from now will be very different from today maybe some countries open today will not be. Maybe some countries closed today will be open. But African hunting will still persist in one form or another. It will be different for sure, but not necessarily worse. Maybe some animals like lion will be fewer or farther between or none existent for hunting, but the majority of African hunting is here to stay.

I for one say trophy imports be damned! I hunt for the experience. I won't turn down a trophy by any means, but that's not why I do it. And if I have to leave the trophy there so be it!

Hunt while you can as much as you can and don't worry about what you can't control.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Naaaaah....by 2025 Civilization as we know it will be gone and hunting will be a required for survival...

Well, if the sky does fall I bet all those anti-gun folks will be wishing they owned a gun.

I'll remember you all when I rule the world. Al for "Supreme World Overlord 2025!"

I will be 88 in 2025, but only if I'm lucky.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Al for "Supreme World Overlord 2025!

Is this gonna be a feifdom Lord Al..??

Reddy

You can still legally hunt Polar Bear, Jaguar and many more animals. You just cannot import them into the US.

This doesn't mean an end of hunting. If all you want is the trophy than you can buy it on ebay. If you just want the hunt than you can still go and enjoy it.

Actually, if I did no taxidermy, I could hunt twice as much!! Interesting. Right on Dr. Barringer.

quote:

Originally posted by Gator1:
Reddy

You can still legally hunt Polar Bear, Jaguar and many more animals. You just cannot import them into the US.

This doesn't mean an end of hunting. If all you want is the trophy than you can buy it on ebay. If you just want the hunt than you can still go and enjoy it.

The big thing is not the import of trophies, or the lack of huntable animals anywhere in Africa! It is the fact that it is getting harder to import my rifles, and looking at a future when you may not own one at all, or use one that someone else is NOT allowed to own.

Then there is the thing that Vlam stated as being a possitive,one of the big problems with the way legal hunting is going. It seems every year, more and more, the hunting is becoming game farm hunting. The leaving trophies behind thing is not the problem, it is that most do not want a trophy taken from a barnyard animal, on a put and take operation. I don't see anything wrong with game farms, if all you want to do is shoot an animal, but if that is the case why go to Africa, we have a herd of Cape buffalo in Texas, along with just about everything else one might want to shoot, if shooting animals is all you want. I'd say rarely will one hear lions roar at night from a 5 star lodge in RSA, or Texas.

This is not "The sky is falling" it is fact. When I was young I never heard of a game farm, and hunted far and wide, on open land, in many parts of the world, but hunting in Europe has been privatized for 300 yrs, and that, my friends is spreading all over the world fast. 50 yrs ago there was not a game ranch in the USA, now they are about the only way one can hunt in all but a few states out west, and even those are going the way of farming. So what I'm saying is, RSA is not a shining example of what I call hunting, but a bad example of where all hunting is going! I see a time when RSA type hunting is all we have, and when that happens, hopefully I will be hunting in the happy hunting grounds, but if not I will most likely be hunting on those farms, just like everyone else, and dreaming of "times of old" when hunting was something else all together!

Young men, hunt while you can, for tomorrow it may be someing you will not like!

quote:

Posted 17 December 2008 08:38 Hide Post
Naaaaah....by 2025 Civilization as we know it will be gone and hunting will be a required for survival... Wink

AH then comes cannibalism, BBQ'd bureaucrat only a little give you a gutfull

Gator 1,

Where can we hunt jaguar legally? Just asking, but I was under the impression that it wasn't open legally anywhere.

I knew we for sure couldn't import them to the US and there are a lot of places where it's done. But is it actually legal somewhere?

I know some people who'd go just for the experience, as long as it's legal to hunt them.

No offense, reddy375, but Chicken Little's story is instructive here, and we must remember that he did two things wrong.

First, he ran around crying that the sky was falling when it wasn't. It was staying right where it was, except for a storm blowing around now and then. Chicken Little was an alarmist.

Second, even if the sky was falling, so what? Was Chicken Little or anyone else going to hold it up?

No. Chicken Little was wasting his time and energy running around and crying about it.

Draw your own moral(s)!

When I went on my first safari in 1982,everyone said you are lucky to have hunted in Africa because you will not be able to hunt there much longer. Yes- thing are changing and not always for the better, but I think the future looks ok. Hope so...

Whether the sky is falling or not, I have always said that if you want to hunt Africa do it now, and as often as you can possible afford to do so. Things change from year to year, some for the better, some for the worse. Prices have never come down, but always seem to rise. Areas close each year to hunting and become "green". It just makes sense to go when you can and not put it off. IMHO.

The first paragraph of MacD37's post is the nearest to the mark. Gun ownership, hunting, ammo, and all things attendent thereto will become so regulated both here and abroad that the shooting sports will die a slow death.

Those who oppose our sport don't have to take our guns, or outlaw hunting. They'll simply make it impossible or impractible for all but the very few. Actually using a gun will become the exception.

I sort of like the "Chicken Little" approach, simply because every now and then, it makes some people actually stop and take a look around, and see why someone may have
"CLS".

For one second, those that have responded, think about how old you are now, and how old you will be in 2025, Providing, you live that long.

Now, after taking that into consideration, look at what the recruitment rate of young hunters is yearly.

Take into account that it is a proven fact that hunter numbers are declining world wide, Due To The Aging And Death Of Older Hunters And A Marked Lack Of Recruitment Of Young Hunters.

As hunter numbers continue to decline, there will be less demand by the Public in General for states and countries to spend funds managing wildlife.

To make up for those decreasing funds, those same game departments have to keep raising prices, to those that are still interested in the sport.

For most people, there is a point, where the price outweighs the enjoyment, and they drop out completely.

Add to the mix that for several reasons that are better talked about in the AR Political section, humans are still increasing their numbers, but ain't no one figgered out how to create more land for houses or farms to supply food for all those folks.

Will ALL hunting be dead by 2025, maybe, maybe not, but what about 2050???

Who is coming up behind us Old Farts to keep the concepts and ideas about hunting and the out of doors alive?

I am glad that I will probably not live to see it, but I believe that hunting is circleing the drain. JMO.

Even within the lifetime of PH's still alive (such as Harry Selby) African hunting has changed from the time when you could set out from Nairobi with little or no restrictions on where you went, how long you stayed or what you hunted.

Now we are looking at more "green" areas closed to or restricting hunting and even whole countries closed to hunting.

I don't see how anyone can expect hunting as we want it to be to be allowed in the future except under the most severe restrictions.

I guess this is what I was talking about!

http://forums.accuratereloadin.../1411043/m/939109889

Not trying to be chicken little or scare anyone, I was just making an observation, as it suddenly struck me that we are probably the last hunters as we know it today.

I was kidding around with the Chicken Little reference, and did not mean to give any offense or shut off discussion - not that I could do the latter even if I wanted to!

I was just using CL as a way to make a fairly simple point - that we shouldn't spend too much time worrying about what we can't know or can't change, and that we should make productive use of our time.

And I agree 100% that we should definitely hunt Africa now and as often as we can, and that we should do whatever we can to pass along our hunting heritage to our kids.

I am taking one of my sons to Namibia next year. We will be hunting in the north west and the Caprivi with Vaughan Fulton.

quote:

guess this is what I was talking about!

http://forums.accuratereloadin.../1411043/m/939109889

Any truth to this? Is Bots going to close, or, are they just regrouping for an auction of their concessions?

Who REALLY knows???

JW

I have been accused of having terminal "CLS" for a good while now.

IMO, the truth is out there, but too many folks want to keep their heads buried in their ass, instead of realistically looking at what is going on around them.

Our kids have been being bombarded for many years with the message that hunting is bad, and not subliminally either, but often quite overt.

Others have came from broken homes, where there was no strong male influence or any ties to hunting or the land.

Public Land now has to be administrated for non-consumptive as well as consumptive users.

Add to that, the encroachment of people buying up land and building homes right next to the borders of the Public Land, and then closing off access to the rest of the public to those lands.

Many of us are the last, and very few are coming up behind us that have the same ties to hunting and the land that we did, it is basic evolution.

Regarding Africa, it seems as though as one country sinks, another bubbles up, at least for a while. Opportunities here and elsewhere in the world do seem to be diminishing, but I think that there will be enough to go around for a good while. If it will be affordable for the average and slightly-above in 2020 and beyond, I don't know. I look at my sons, who after 3 trips each, are as enamored with Africa as I am (well, almost, they still have girls to occupy their thoughts!). But they have a long road ahead of them…finish college, career, marriage, house, kids, etc. I hope they will be able to afford trips on their own, and suppose like many of us they will find a way if truly motivated. Heck, I was sort of looking for a little return on my investment down the road!

I've done a lot of hunts in the past 8 years, probably more then I should have, but looking back at what has happened to the costs associated with hunting - and the investment market if that is where the $'s would have ended up instead - I feel pretty darn good about my decisions. I was too late on a few dream hunts…like forest bongo or desert elephant or bighorn sheep, which are still available but more then I can justify, but thats okay. Somebody going on their first African hunt today will likely experience much the same. If at some point I need to lower my expectations, so be it, there are a lot of options and cool experiences out there yet to be had and not all of them cost an arm and a leg, but a future w/o hunting Africa is just not something I am prepared to accept.

Check out some of the offers in the Outfitters section, there are numerous interesting hunts and packages. I see this as the supply channel adjusting, and coming up with creative solutions given the current economic conditions. And you know what else, so what if you never get to shoot a rhino, polar bear, lion or a Marco Polo. There's still a tremendous number of options out there.

JMHO's

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
At the risk of seeming to be somewhat irreverent, which isn't the intention at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

Thanks, Steve. I needed that.
And I thought this thread was going to be about the Obama-nation.

Dave