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Originally posted by BaxterB:

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For me the better question is why is there a record book?

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Originally posted by Jaco Human:

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Originally posted by BaxterB:

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For me the better question is why is there a record book?

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My opinion of a record book is to have a record of the animals that was hunted over the years, it also have a lot of data that can be used scientifically. It also proves that all the large measured animals was not hunted out in the old days as some people like to suggest (read bunny hugging greenies). The record book should be in honour of the animal and not in honour of the hunter. Unfortunreately the hunter gets all the honour today and the animal is forgotten, which is a sad situation.

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Originally posted by Kebco: What would you base the trophy measurement on? The longest ear?

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Originally posted by jimmara: No animal should be in a record book. The hunting industry would be a whole lot better off with no record books

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Originally posted by Jaco Human:

My opinion of a record book is to have a record of the animals that was hunted over the years, it also have a lot of data that can be used scientifically. It also proves that all the large measured animals was not hunted out in the old days as some people like to suggest (read bunny hugging greenies). The record book should be in honour of the animal and not in honour of the hunter. Unfortunreately the hunter gets all the honour today and the animal is forgotten, which is a sad situation.

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Originally posted by Matt Graham:

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Originally posted by Jaco Human:

My opinion of a record book is to have a record of the animals that was hunted over the years, it also have a lot of data that can be used scientifically. It also proves that all the large measured animals was not hunted out in the old days as some people like to suggest (read bunny hugging greenies). The record book should be in honour of the animal and not in honour of the hunter. Unfortunreately the hunter gets all the honour today and the animal is forgotten, which is a sad situation.

How is the animal forgotten Jaco?

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Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Jaco Human - Matt is right. The animal is NOT forgotten in ANY record book. The entry includes both the hunter and the animal and always stays that way. After all if a great animal is taken, why wouldn't we want or like to know who took the magnificent creature??? It's only common sense to include both animal and hunter.

Zebra are really cool and it would be great if they were included in record books. I am sure a "measurement" solution, not some of the silly ones here, could be forthcoming.

Larry Sellers
SCI (International) Life Member

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Originally posted by Matt Graham:

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Originally posted by Jaco Human:

My opinion of a record book is to have a record of the animals that was hunted over the years, it also have a lot of data that can be used scientifically. It also proves that all the large measured animals was not hunted out in the old days as some people like to suggest (read bunny hugging greenies). The record book should be in honour of the animal and not in honour of the hunter. Unfortunreately the hunter gets all the honour today and the animal is forgotten, which is a sad situation.

How is the animal forgotten Jaco?

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Originally posted by Jaco Human:

Matt and Larry, maybe I should not have used the word forgotten. Not every hunter in the world is posting on AR or other forums, there are people out there that are only chasing measurement and do not really care about the hunt. You get hunters that will "order" a animal of a specific size, even specify the colour, if the measurement is not to their order they will not pay for the trophy. This demand for size and colour created a market where game breeders are manupilating nature to breed certain variations. Look at the colour variations in Springbuck, Blue Wildebeest and Blesbuck. In nature the colour variations would not have survived and it very seldomly occured. The same goes with horn lenghts. For a certain group of hunters it became a shopping list and some huting areas became a supermarket.

By no means would I suggest that there must not be a record book as we get a lot of data out of it, my issue is with people who hunt to get the top places to brag about, it is about their personal accomplishment and not about the animal that was hunted.

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It was not and is not there to establish records in the sense of biggest or best, nor to glorify the hunter. It celebrates the animal and it does not matter whether the animal’s horns, tusks or teeth were picked up in the veld from one that had died of natural causes, was killed by a predator or was shot by a hunter. By establishing the benchmark for what constitutes a trophy (particularly where the standards are high), The Book makes a most valuable contribution to ensure that trophy hunters concentrate on those big, old, lone males which have long since passed on their genes to younger generations.

The Book also serves as an excellent and objective conservation tool. It stands to reason that, where trophy standards have increased over time in a particular region, in all likelihood, sound conservation practices have been applied, while the converse is probably also true. These facts, in turn are also valuable research tools for the hunter in deciding where, when and with whom he wants to hunt a particular species.

In addition, The Book is a valuable source of knowledge on the distribution of game and its taxonomic features as well as an historical, geographical and biological record which few other sources can match.

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Originally posted by Grenadier:
Why is there a record book? I am partial to Rowland Ward. I like their books and I like their pledge. Here is what they have to say about their record book:

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It was not and is not there to establish records in the sense of biggest or best, nor to glorify the hunter. It celebrates the animal and it does not matter whether the animal’s horns, tusks or teeth were picked up in the veld from one that had died of natural causes, was killed by a predator or was shot by a hunter. By establishing the benchmark for what constitutes a trophy (particularly where the standards are high), The Book makes a most valuable contribution to ensure that trophy hunters concentrate on those big, old, lone males which have long since passed on their genes to younger generations.

The Book also serves as an excellent and objective conservation tool. It stands to reason that, where trophy standards have increased over time in a particular region, in all likelihood, sound conservation practices have been applied, while the converse is probably also true. These facts, in turn are also valuable research tools for the hunter in deciding where, when and with whom he wants to hunt a particular species.

In addition, The Book is a valuable source of knowledge on the distribution of game and its taxonomic features as well as an historical, geographical and biological record which few other sources can match.

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Originally posted by Grenadier: If you think Rowland Ward is anything like SCI then it is obvious you don't know anything about them. I'll leave it at that.

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Originally posted by Grenadier:
If you think Rowland Ward is anything like SCI then it is obvious you don't know anything about them. I'll leave it at that.

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Originally posted by Matt Graham:

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Originally posted by Jaco Human:

Matt and Larry, maybe I should not have used the word forgotten. Not every hunter in the world is posting on AR or other forums, there are people out there that are only chasing measurement and do not really care about the hunt. You get hunters that will "order" a animal of a specific size, even specify the colour, if the measurement is not to their order they will not pay for the trophy. This demand for size and colour created a market where game breeders are manupilating nature to breed certain variations. Look at the colour variations in Springbuck, Blue Wildebeest and Blesbuck. In nature the colour variations would not have survived and it very seldomly occured. The same goes with horn lenghts. For a certain group of hunters it became a shopping list and some huting areas became a supermarket.

By no means would I suggest that there must not be a record book as we get a lot of data out of it, my issue is with people who hunt to get the top places to brag about, it is about their personal accomplishment and not about the animal that was hunted.

These hunters requests must be specially reserved for South African outfitters... I have very, very few clients ask me for purple rusa deer!!! In fact I probably only have one or two enquiries per year where the hunter is asking for a specific size rusa deer ... (ie. must be gold medal or something like that)

I suppose if I started advertising these special purple deer some more people might ask for them... Or a specific (size) animal - but I find that kind of hunt advertising rather distasteful.