The thread about Ian Dodds, or in fact any other situation about safari hunters losing money to unscrupulous outfitters or PH's got me thinking. As many of you have probably heard, it is not a one way street. Some outfitters and PH's have had trouble getting their clients to pay. So, if the problem exists on both sides of the transaction, why isn't there any secure way for both parties to minimize the risk? I would bet that there are some experienced businessmen who are members of this forum who use secure methods for their important transactions. In my own business, we have, on occasion, arranged for escrow account operations when sizeable advances were required. It is standard operating procedure in the civil engineering contracting business to provide bonds for advances as well. Is there some reason this couldn't be done in the safari business? The amounts involved could justify it.

Wink

Not wanting to sound presumptious at all ...

BUT for someone/anyone to have sent 20K without doing some (brief background homework first) is IMHO naive and maybe (very silly to say the least) but then, I dont know the full story backround which would help as these brief (I heard stories) from a friend of a friend in a bar scenario tend to be difficult to comment factually upon

Peter

Using one of the few reputable booking agents out there is the best way to safeguard deposits etc. for both hunter and outfitter.

Now the hard choice is which agent. Again it falls back to doing your homework and being a little cynical. Far too many hunters fall for the hard sell, bs artist types out there on the floor at SCI and other shows.

I certainly wouldn't argue against doing one's homework nor against going with a reputable outfit. But the question remains, even totally reputable corporations use both bonds for advances and escrow accounts for large payments to minimize risk. Even a reputable outfit can run into problems like an untimely death of a principle of the firm, impossibility to deliver the promised service due to political turmoil, insurrection or civil war or, new international regulations such as boycott enforcement, etc. Escrow accounts earn interest which means their costs are limited. It just seems strange to me that safaris hunters as a group may use all of these tools in their day to day business dealings but there is no comparable system in the hunting arena. It may be of little consequence for a $4000 RSA safari, but when 20 to 50K is on the line it doesn't seem out of line to me.

When I book a Trip, Like most, I sign a contract and leave a minimal deposit. In some cases, if I know the Outfitter personally, I am required to leave none. During the last few years in Africa, through previous arrangement with the Outfitter, I pay the total Safari bill, via telephone wire transfer, using my Satellite phone, at the end of the hunt. It takes all of two minutes, and certainly saves the aggravation of bringing Travelors Checks. I know this does not totally answer your question about securing your Deposit or Payment, but you may discuss it with any prospective company you may be hunting with. Most well established Safari Companies have their Bank accounts in the U.S., and this may make you feel more secure.

I have delt with Atcheson and Son's of Butte Montana for my last 5 African Safaris. When I book a hunt I send them the required deposit and they hold it in a US acoount. Before the safari I send them suffecient funds to cover the expected daily rate, trophy fees and any charter flight costs. Again they hold it until the safari is over and I and the PH agree on the final costs. When I get back to the US I call Atcheson's and tell them to release the agreed upon amount of money and they return the remainder to me. This protects my money to ease any worries I might have, No problems so far with this system and I highly recommend it.

465H&H

I think the most security you can have is if an agent stateside is holding the money until the safari is done as 465 H&H mentioned. There is one step above that and that is if the agent or the agent's company not only keeps all the money secure they actually own the leases on the hunitng areas which at least in Tanzania is our situation. In our case and in the case of a few other safari operators the whole operation is owned and managed from the States. If there is a problem the actual physical owners can be contacted in person if necessary. From a client point of view I find that quite reasuring.

Mark

There is no perfect answer really, but there are some checks and balances that can be applied.

Apart from your [basic homework] there has to be some basic trust involved as well, and YES companies do go out of business from time to time, and YES clients do ALSO cancel out at a late stage occasionally, so this is two way traffic, just like most business transactions.

Sometimes the Outfitter is cleaned out and (left holding the baby) by those whom book a hunt, DONT pay a deposit, and then at the last minute say (my granny died) or similar and that they cant make the hunt and then dissappear into the woodwork leaving the Outfitter without the booking and an (unsold date) as he would naturally have turned away other hunters whom might have wanted that date schedule.

What has worked well for us in the past is a basic (holding deposit of 40%) sent by t/t in advance and backed up by the client taking out some general (cancellation insurance) to cover his investment. I think that in this day and age of strikes delays and miscellaneous unforseen circumstances beyond our general control it is rather foolish for the client not to take out some kind of basic insurance cover !!

Then after arrival at the ranch the client can easily arrange a telegraphic transfer for the remaining outstanding amount, and at the end of the hunt pay with t/cheque for any animals or add on species taken, or even with credit card if that service is available.

There is no perfect solution only guidelines to minimise risk

Cheers ... Peter

What happens to the security with the US agent when the outfitter in Africa and the US based agent are alledgedly partners in the whole fiasco?

I to have used Atchessons for five safaris now and have been using the escrow method since 97. If I didnt trust them I wouldnt use them. That said anytime you send money out of the country you are taking a risk. Since I dont like carrying large ammounts of cash or checks this is the best way to do it. You can even pay tips with a signature .

Seems like the people at "The Hunting Report" brought up the idea of an "escrow agent" several months ago. But I've not heard anything about it since then. Has it gone anywhere?

Peter [Balla Balla],
It seems that an escrow agent could work to the advantage of the outfitter as well as the hunter! Your 40% deposit and asking the hunter to buy insurance on that money through trip insurance passes all the risk and expense to the hunter!
Couldn't you, the outfitter, buy "Accounts Receivable" insurance to cover your risk of a cancelled hunt instead?

How often does an Outfitter get stuck by a no- show hunter, that he is unable to replace during the season? [What % of total hunting days are lost?]

Les

I like the idea of an escrow agent, but can see outfitters might not.

If there was a cancellation who would decide if the terms warranted a refund or not?

Twice now, I have sent my deposit to my US based booking agent (Tim Danklef) and 30 days or so before the safari I send the balance of the daily rate and charter flight costs, etc.

Upon completion of the safari, I have just written personal checks out of my US bank account. This is usually for all of my trophy fees, dip & ship, and anything else I incur.

In fact, on my last safari, we sat down at the end and I wrote three checks, one for my trophy fees, one for the charter flight (Giles, a great pilot), and one to Andy Hunter for Dip & Ship (he did a great job). All of these people (in Zim) seemed fine with the personal check.

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
What happens to the security with the US agent when the outfitter in Africa and the US based agent are alledgedly partners in the whole fiasco?

ANSWER: See the sheephunter thread.

I still don't understand why more companies don't work on site with "plastic". I see some of the more progressive agents are doing so now. Heck- add the 3-4 points on. It is so much easier for all concerned. I've seen it done remotely via cell and sat phones.