Saeed has a thread going about Walter's DGR. I just saw (and bid on) my concept of what's perfect. I've bid and am the high bidder (though the reserve isn't met). I wish I could afford the thing! Alas!

What do your think? Click below to see it.

THE PERFECT RIFLE?

Beautiful, right down to the hard buttplate.

Did I make a false assumption. Is this gun a .375 Express 2.5" and not the Flanged Magnum ???

Can anyone tell from the pictures?

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Did I make a false assumption. Is this gun a .375 Express 2.5" and not the Flanged Magnum ???

Can anyone tell from the pictures?

Per Kynamco, the .375 flanged magnum was introduced in 1912. The seller says this is a .375 2-1/2 built/sold in 1908, so I am guessing is is not the .375 FM.

The ammo pictured in the case appears to be the straight tapered 2.5" case. And yes the flanged magnum 375 wasn't introduced until 1912.

Never fear. Reserve not met.

Need a .450 minimum anyway. Don't be tempted by these .375s. They may be sleek, but they're too meek.

I agree, doubles start at 450-400 if your shooting Buffalo IMO...and you can buy a really nice 450-400 for that kind of money.

That is a beautiful rifle! Wood is excellent and it is an H&H. I suspect that the oak case is worth quite a bit as well.
Hmmm..... What is this baby worth?
Peter.

Beatiful
L

I'm at the office and don't have my books. What are the ballistics of the 375 2.5 versus the flanged magnum?

quote:

Originally posted by bradhe:
I'm at the office and don't have my books. What are the ballistics of the 375 2.5 versus the flanged magnum?

From Kynamco:

The pic looks like flanged magnum but who knows. I don't think the magnum version was around in 1908(?).

Flanged: 1899

Flanged magnum: 1912

It says it is a 2 1/2" case.

Irrespective what a lovely rifle.

It would still be the nicest Hog/Deer/Elk rifle in camp. If I could get the gun inspected or knew the seller I would be interested.

Jim

Still, quite a difference between a 270 gr. bullet at 1950 fps, and a 270 gr, bullet at 2600 fps!
So, can anyone hazard a guess as to what this thing is worth?
peter.

I am sure it is worth a small fortune, but as a DG rifle it is pretty much useless.

I had a great little double in .375 Flanged 2.5". I loaded it with 270 grain Hornady bullets and took it to Africa last May. I killed zebra, impala, warthogs, hartebeest, and wildebeest with it with no trouble. It is a very, very useful cartridge.

I believe that Jim Wooten has a Holland in this caliber, but not so fancy (dominion grade sidelock?). His (I think) is regulated and proofed for 320 grain bullets at 2150, which puts a different spin on whether his gun is DG "worthy". I'll stick, however to my WR .450/.400 which I finally got regulated yesterday!!!!

I sold my .375 double a couple of months ago and just got an e-mail from the buyer, via Ray Atkinson... It's shooting both 235 grain and 270 grain bullets faster than 2100 fps into half-dollar sized groups using Varget instead of the IMR 3031 that I used.

Maybe the buyer will reply?

You can shoot 40 pound car batteries out of it if you want to but it still won't be a DG rifle. I was in camp with a guy that shot his lion with a scoped $150K H&H 375 2 1/2". Wounded and lost. Tried a buff. PH had to kill it.

So it's not a DG rifle, big deal. It's still a very nice rifle for other applications. Hang in there Judge, you may just wind up with a a fine rifle.

Telly

Will:

I can guaran-damn-tee you that if you shot a buffalo with a car battery at 2150 fps, you'd have a pretty dead animal... a little lead in you ox-tail soup, though??

I know this rifle and the dealer who owned or owns it, it is not the 375H&H flanged, the round is shorter, almost on par with the 375winchester/38-55 lenght,It is a very good looking rifle, and most of his info has come from the H&H show room in NY

I don't know about this gun Judge, you might be better off with a bow and arrow than a .375 bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I don't know about this gun Judge, you might be better off with a bow and arrow than a .375 bullet.

So what do you guys think the reserve is? This could be a good investment and you can shoot most NA animals and certainly plainsgame in Africa if you have a mind. I would not screw around with trying to overload it and make it something it is not as it is too valuable.

I think if the gun were at the H&H NYC showroom, they would want $40K. Westley Richards would want $35K. Champlins would want $30K.

So with that in mind, $20K would be a good price. If you can see it and be sure there are no defects.

But I don't really know anything about older guns.

OK, I will shoot a Buffalo with a 375 2.5", and if I kill him I get the gun, if I wound him I will buy anyone and his two best friends a 21 day Safari each,,,Any takers?

Just a brilliant scheme on my part, don't you think?

quote:

OK, I will shoot a Buffalo with a 375 2.5", and if I kill him I get the gun, if I wound him I will buy anyone and his two best friends a 21 day Safari each,,,Any takers?

Just a brilliant scheme on my part, don't you think?

I'll bite. I'll buy the rifle, let you use it under the conditions you describe. But, always a But eh, you have to take me with you, at your expense, and I will pick your shot/shots.

Ray,

I will take you up on that if I can be the one who loads the ammo that you use.

Ray

Okay, me and 500grains. You said three total so we will ask Judge G to be the third. That way he can be 'Fair and Impartial'.

I'll even bring your .375 Holland bolt Rifle along, for nostalgia.

Judge,

It's only up the road from you in "CHESAPEAKE, VA."

Run up there and look at it tomorrow or soon.

If you can scrape up the money for it you'll probably never be sorry even if it's not the perfect DGR.

$bob$

Are these guys good! or what?

Ray, are you going to reneg on the offer?

I even promise a full load of powder. But the bullets will be cast from caramel, then painted with copper colored paint. If your shot placement is good, the buffalo may develop a sweet tooth.

The sad thing is that I had a video of the .375 2.5" in action, but someone lifted the camera at the Vic Falls airport.

The cartridge just plain killed stuff dead and the "non-premium" Hornady bullets performed perfectly at the lower velocities. For instance, I shot a zebra right at the convergence of the "v's", low in the chest on a head on shot. The bullet penetrated the diaphram after pretty well messing up the heart and lungs.

As a "just in case" load, I put together some 300 grain Hornady solids left over from those Mims sent me from the Hoffman estate. The load was hotter than the cordite proof, I'm sure, but it topped 2000 fps and regulated better than the 270 loads. So.... Ray, if you want a bullet/powder combination that'll probably do just fine on a shot behind the shoulder on a buff, I'll send you a couple... And I loaded them so you KNOW they are just fine!

As to my joining the bet, I have no doubt that a well constructed bullet at .375 diameter around 2000 fps will kill a buffalo... that is, if you smoke a cigar, instead of a cigarette before you go to get it! Just don't shoot him in the shoulder blade... and be prepared to wait a bit. Maybe go eat lunch or something... Maybe go get will with his .458, too!

So here's the real debate...

Which is the better rifle for buffalo:

A Marlin lever gun in .45/70 or

An H&H Royal in .375 2.5"

I guess I'd rather hunt buff with that double then I would a TC contender in 375 JDJ, because thats about what you have with the 2 1/2" 375.

Which is better the 45/70 or the 375 2.5"?
I do not think it would make any difference. Put the proper bullet in the right place and you have a dead buff.
Either would penetrate the brain, with a solid, on a close range charge.
I would pick the double......
I would not want to fade the heat if a picture of me, a buff, and a 45/70 lever showed up on AR.

I'm sure the 375 2 1/2" is a wonderful round, but it was never intended, apparently, as a DG round. To say it is is the same old argument, the .375 is as good as the 416, as good as the 338/318, as the 30-06, as....the 22 LR.

Will:

I do agree with the above. I think it was gotten right back when the 9.3x62 was determined to be the minimum, and the .375 2.5" is not its equal... but..

Under somewhat controlled circumstances, I'll take a pop at a buff... but never a bull.

Remember I, at first, thought the rifle was the flanged magnum... and that's a whole different ball game.

Sleep well and dream of the elephants you'll hunt this year with Brent.

Hey, there is nothing personal in this stuff. Most of the meat here is just idling away a Sunday evening.

If you love this rifle, buy it. Good God, you don't need AR to help you make up your mind (I hope!).