Not to inspire any further debate, but who knew that John "Pondoro" Taylor shot his first elephant through the ribs at eleven paces with a heavily gold plated .577/.450 Martini Henry single shot carbine that had probably been built for an Indian prince? After the shot, he lost the elephant in the smoke. But he tracked it down and it was a one shot kill.

Pondoro reported that his rifle was loaded with a lead bulleted, blackpowder charged cartridge. The standard in those days was a 480 grain soft lead bullet at about 1,300-1,350 fps muzzle velocity.

So, by comparison, not only is the .45-70 a wonderful big game cartridge when hotly loaded with modern powder, solid bullets and chambered in a Marlin levergun, but apparently the old blackpowder, lead bulleted load chambered in a trapdoor Springfield cavalry carbine would be enough gun too.

here we go again
Cave men killed saber toothed tigers with rocks and stone tipped spears - sounds like they are great dangerous game tools. ( I can't say weapons ). The fact that you can kill an animal with a particular caliber doen't mean that that caliber is a great choice for killing that animal, it only means that it is possible to kill the animal with it. Elephants have been killed with a 22lr, that doesn't make it a good choice for hunting elephants.
Yes you can kill ( fill in the blank ) with a 45-70. If you want to do it, and can talk a Ph into it, great. GO DO IT and quit bothering everyone.
This subject has been beaten to death.
TerryR

I think you missed the at the end of mrlexma's post.

Did someone really kill an ellie with a .22?

A proper gun and being able to make a kill with something else is two different issues!

Yes, indeed, was the key. I guess I have to learn to be less subtle.

In his book "Pondoro: The Last of the Ivory Hunters," after writing about killing his first elephant, Taylor spent much ink on the subject of how ill-suited the .577/.450 was for the task and how ill-advised he had been to use it.

Most everyone has read his book.



One of the first things he did was go get a bigger gun.



So what is the point?

Will,

You have PM.

Thanks,

Jeff

The point may not be much of a point.



Just seems that many, including a lot of hotshot writers, miss it entirely.

Yeah, sorry.

Though there were some of the old-timers that planned down to the last detail, and could afford it, there were also many who latched onto the first or only rifle they could find, which was Taylor's case, if I recall correctly.

And there were some, but not many, that bemoaned the fact that a shell was wasted on a wounded animal that got away rather than the fact that an animal was wounded and got away.

I suppose that is similar to wounding one today and having to pay up the trophy fee. Ouch. That is a good enough reason for using enough gun.