I have seen the above stated as a fact of trophy judgement in Sable by some of the "heroes" around here. I have seen it adopted and accepted by some of the "zeroes". Can anyone point me to some documentation of this theoretical "condition" other than that spoken about around a campfire? Has anyone documented the horn growth throughout the lifespan of this species?

Secondary growth is seen in many species of horned ungulates. To name a few we can include bighorn sheep, mountain goats, roan, sable etc. Typically, the amount of horn growth gets smaller in each year as the animal ages. In the last years of live such as in Bighorns in the nine to 14 year age class the growth rings are very small and tend to be almost equal in length. The term secondary growth refers to this condition. In sable the circumference of the horn remains essentially the same for several years. The longer that secondary growth is, the older the sable is.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Secondary growth is seen in many species of horned ungulates. To name a few we can include bighorn sheep, mountain goats, roan, sable etc. Typically, the amount of horn growth gets smaller in each year as the animal ages. In the last years of live such as in Bighorns in the nine to 14 year age class the growth rings are very small and tend to be almost equal in length. The term secondary growth refers to this condition. In sable the circumference of the horn remains essentially the same for several years. The longer that secondary growth is, the older the sable is.

Why is this called "secondary growth"?

Where did the term come from?

http://www.koedoe.co.za/index....cle/viewFile/641/670


Link has a study starting on page 148, hope this is of some use.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
I have seen the above stated as a fact of trophy judgement in Sable by some of the "heroes" around here. I have seen it adopted and accepted by some of the "zeroes". Can anyone point me to some documentation of this theoretical "condition" other than that spoken about around a campfire? Has anyone documented the horn growth throughout the lifespan of this species?

Does the information contained in the link from Kathi now elevate you to " zero" status or do you need some more help attaining this pinnacle of achievement ?

An excellent study. Well thought out and in a lot of depth.

So the answer to the question is Secondary growth = "Growth in horn that occurs after the animal has reached maturity.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
An excellent study. Well thought out and in a lot of depth.

So the answer to the question is Secondary growth = "Growth in horn that occurs after the animal has reached maturity.

And this is visible?

quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeman:

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
I have seen the above stated as a fact of trophy judgement in Sable by some of the "heroes" around here. I have seen it adopted and accepted by some of the "zeroes". Can anyone point me to some documentation of this theoretical "condition" other than that spoken about around a campfire? Has anyone documented the horn growth throughout the lifespan of this species?

Does the information contained in the link from Kathi now elevate you to " zero" status or do you need some more help attaining this pinnacle of achievement ?

Oh damn...

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeman:

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
I have seen the above stated as a fact of trophy judgement in Sable by some of the "heroes" around here. I have seen it adopted and accepted by some of the "zeroes". Can anyone point me to some documentation of this theoretical "condition" other than that spoken about around a campfire? Has anyone documented the horn growth throughout the lifespan of this species?

Does the information contained in the link from Kathi now elevate you to " zero" status or do you need some more help attaining this pinnacle of achievement ?

Oh damn...

+1

I could be a "zero" but I think that scrunchy tight ribbed area at the base is secondary growth.

Great sable.

Young bull for comparison. Photo courtesy of Mike Burke.

Also see snare on neck.

Kathi,
Great article, it would appear "secondary growth" is something recognized by many. Although not a consistent aging tool (kind of like color) as the article states it is not always visible? I have looked at tons of pics of sable and seen what appear to be males in their prime with these compacted rings at the base and I have seen what appear to be very old sable without noticeable compaction. As far as the little bitches on here that can't focus on the pertinent part of the post, and add absolutely nothing of substance to these conversations, I would be classified as a "zero", now lets move along.....

This is very interesting to me as many a PH will use SG as a tool to justify age and the trophy. I generally can age an animal from other traits.

Sable would be a good specie to analyse here as some of the biggest and oldest to come out of Royal Kafue have been brown and not black.

Therefore one can assume that colour is not necessary an indicator?

When studying Lions in Zambia the experts concluded that the black nose theory of Tanzania did not apply here?

Interesting variables.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
This is very interesting to me as many a PH will use SG as a tool to justify age and the trophy. I generally can age an animal from other traits.

Sable would be a good specie to analyse here as some of the biggest and oldest to come out of Royal Kafue have been brown and not black.

Therefore one can assume that colour is not necessary an indicator?

When studying Lions in Zambia the experts concluded that the black nose theory of Tanzania did not apply here?

Interesting variables.

I did not catch the ladies name fairgame, but a noted lion researcher said that absolutely no one can age a lion accurately by looking at them. I will try and retrieve her name.

Jeff

Apologies to 505 gibbs if my response was deemed a bit savage.
But for the life of me I can't understand why there was a need to include the jibe about heroes and zeroes if this was a genuine request for knowledgable input on a topic.
If you fire shots on forums you have expect the odd ricochet.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
This is very interesting to me as many a PH will use SG as a tool to justify age and the trophy. I generally can age an animal from other traits.

Sable would be a good specie to analyse here as some of the biggest and oldest to come out of Royal Kafue have been brown and not black.

Therefore one can assume that colour is not necessary an indicator?

When studying Lions in Zambia the experts concluded that the black nose theory of Tanzania did not apply here?

Interesting variables.

I did not catch the ladies name fairgame, but a noted lion researcher said that absolutely no one can age a lion accurately by looking at them. I will try and retrieve her name.

Jeff

DR. Paula White

When Thor Kirchner was my apprentice in the Kafue we looked at one Lion for over a week or so and I was convinced he was of age but the friggin teenager kept casting doubt. He was undermining my decision. Long story short we shot the Lion and it was one of the oldest recorded that year by Paula.

Thor apologised when he inspected the Lion on the ground.

Jeff I disagree with Paula. It was she who stated that she had not been around that many lions before she came to Zambia.

Andrew - can the very old sable bulls loose their colour? You mentioned the brown ones.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Andrew - can the very old sable bulls loose their colour? You mentioned the brown ones.

Do not really know but I doubt it. The last Sable I shot was completely black but was in his prime. The biggest and oldest specimens were more brown.

I base age on heavy mass in body and horn. And curve of horn. Anything of that description I recommend as a trophy.

Here is a pic of a sables bases, I do not see the "compression" as described in Kathi's post, or "secondary growth" by the heroes. I do note that in places, the ridges have been worn flat.



In this pic I see the "splintered" tips the report describes....

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Here is a pic of a sables bases, I do not see the "compression" as described in Kathi's post, or "secondary growth" by the heroes. I do note that in places, the ridges have been worn flat.

You cannot see that those rings are spaced closer together than further up the horn?

505 I don't think comparing horns to antlers is really ideal. Antlers can readily express year to year range variations in nutrition, moisture etc. Actually I agree with Matt on the sable.

Jeff

Matt,
through the length of that sables horns some rings are closer than others, I do not see the solid section of compressed rings that most refer to as "secondary growth", perhaps a better example of that would be Jims pic?

Jeff,
Not sure what you are talking about on the antler comment, please elaborate...

I didnt think it refered to a solid section - I took it to be the rings being very close together. Maybe it looks solid on a living animal from a distance?

This very old Roan taken by Steve416 had broken off tips and a regrowth is evident. There is also some evidence of the rings creating a mass at the base.



Note that spiral horns seem to lack this feature? As do Hartebeest, Puku and Reedbuck to name a few.

Check out 2 of the kudu from Marty's report, is this the ever elusive "secondary growth"?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Matt,
through the length of that sables horns some rings are closer than others, I do not see the solid section of compressed rings that most refer to as "secondary growth", perhaps a better example of that would be Jims pic?

Jeff,
Not sure what you are talking about on the antler comment, please elaborate...

Your picture wasn't opening fully (second) on my Iphone. I wondered why you were bring muley's into the convo...my bad...

Jeff