As some of you know I am currently attending college and there is no place on earth as liberal or as full of pussies as an American University. So classes started the other day and in one of my classes I had to stand and deliver an introduction of myself and include any hobbies I may have. Of course I had to mention hunting and my upcoming trip to Zim for an ele hunt. You would have thought I had said I was going to go shoot the pope or something. So if anyone has a good ele charge video out their I would very much like to take it and show it to the liberal pansies so they will shut the hell up! They (including the vegitarian prof.) think it is like shooting an ele at the zoo! Any body out there who can help out a fellow hunter?
Thanks,
Brian

Redhead (Bass Pro Brand) has a video that includes Elephant hunting. I saw part of it at Bass Pro this weekend but I couldn't find it for sale anywhere in the store .

One of the clips showed a PH standing down a PO'ed elephant. This clip will make your hair stand on end. I surfed the web and couldn't find it. However I did find a pretty good number of Videos here.

African Videos

Perhaps one of the other members can recommend one of the titles.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

It's the last part that needs attention.

quote:

---

Originally posted by vapodog:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

It's the last part that needs attention.

---

I thought the last line was " And the wisdom to bury the bodies of those that got in my way"

blacktailer

quote:

---

I thought the last line was " And the wisdom to bury the bodies of those that got in my way"

---

It used to be.....but there's so many liberals today that we're just better off learning to ignore them.

Someone posted here several months ago that a gal asked him where he was going while on a 747 headed for J-burg. He said elephant hunting.....and she said in an astonished pose "why would anyone ever want to kill one of those"? His reply, knowing he'd found a "live" one, was "I just like the sound they make when they fall."
He didn't have her conversation the entire rest of the trip. Love it!!!!

Its not the charge that will change minds, it is the incredible damage done to the trees by elephants that will. If you can get some pics of vegetation in one of the closed parks like Addoo in RSA it will really demonstrate what elephants are really like. Kudude

drop it, dont bring it up and forget anyone ever mentioned it.. you will not win an argument in politics, war, hunting, sex, etc.. nothing you can do will help, it will just get worse.. i told a teachers aid that i was going to move to montana and trap during the winter and pan gold during the summer and my grade whent from an a to a d.. luckily the professor didnt see the reason and regave me the a.. but that is all i could do is petition the professor. not just the few in the usa coledges are against hunting. in other countries only the very rich hunt on game farms, and the poor hate what they precive is the needless killing by the filthy rich.. you are outnumbred and wasting energy, get good grades, not freinds, or try to change the world..you will have time for that later.. dave..

By saying/doing nothing, we (hunters) will eventually go extinct. I do not apologize for being an ethical hunter. In that classroom there are perhaps 2 (two) people that don't eat meat, wear animal products, or sit on leather seats in their car or living room. To them I tip my hat. But to the rest of them I say they are uninformed. They buy a chunk of meat sitting atop a piece of styrafoam or wrapped in plastic. I find nothing wrong with properly taking a piece of meat that is eaten anymore than I would for growing a tomato plant and eating it's fruits. Besides, hunters pay for conservation! Ask that classroom how many of them have them have contributed to the continuation of a species. Explain to them how "If it pays, it stays!".

I am no longer "politically correct" when it comes to hunting. I don't go looking for an argument, but when questioned I will not shirk.

I am not ashamed.

One of the best sources that I have seen for explaining why elephant hunting is necessary for resource management and conservation is Ron Thomson's Mahohboh. He explains in detail, with photographs and good information, the incredible damage that uncontrolled elephant populations can cause, and the ultimate cost to the elephants as well when the population crashes. He worked for the Parks department in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and studied elephants elsewhere in Africa, so he does have the credentials. I got my copy from Safari Press. I think the explanation of how hunting helps ensure a sustainable population of elephants, provides needed foreign currency, and provides important protein for the local population, is more likely to make an impression than a charge video. If you just want to establish that elephant hunting is dangerous, there are other places to turn for information, including the recent Bass Pro outdoors episode that several on here taped.

I've got the tape of the elephant that TheBigGuy was talking about, it's from Bass Pro's TV show. I've got it on TIVO and can send you a VHS tape if you want.

PM me with your name and address.

Give your classmates copies of these pictures and tell them that elephant tastes like roast beef.





Regards,

Terry

Brian,

For what it's worth, here is a link to the Outdoor World elephant hunt video.

http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.CFPage?appID=37&template=video.cfm


Just a tip, rather than bringing your prof an apple, bring he-she a head of lettuce

doug

I recommend to you Ron Thomson's "Mahoboh" which is a fine book on elephant hunting--and the vital NEED to control elephant populations--recommended to me (and to one and all) by our one true resident sage, Will, aka Bill Stewart of Kansas.

What Mahoboh teaches is that elephants are not romantic and peaceful creatures, but, if left to run amok uncontrolled, they are wreckers of ecosystems, killers of all varieties of critically important trees and vegetation, desertifiers of lush forests and destructive monsters of native pastures and cultivated fields.

Thomson preaches that the existing population of elephants--including those in NATIONAL PARKS--must be cut in half, for the sake not only of the ecosystems, i.e, the land and the plants, but also of all other living creatures AND THE ELEPHANTS THEMSELVES. Sport hunting and the finance it will generate is the only hope.

Ignorant and short-sighted protectionism is the doom of all fauna, including the pachyderm.

Brian,

My wife is an Anthropology professor and you are right about the pussies, about 60% of college students are women. Showing an elephant charge won't help, I agree with the other forum members about that. City dwelling liberals have no direct experience living in close proximity to dangerous big game. They do agree that armed robbers, rapists and burglers should be locked up, however. They have been raised on a diet of Disney movies where all herbivoirs are cuddly nice animals and the evil hunters shot Bambi's father. They have watched endless hours of nature shows which, in my experience, never show game control as an effective wildlife management tool. The hard road is educating them about the damaging effects of uncontrolled wildlife populations in these areas, the economic benifits of hunting to the indiginous peoples, and the immense damage that poaching and uncontrolled hunting does to the animals.

Be satisfied with small victories, you can change the world one person at a time.
Paul

You have enough money to go on an elephant hunt, drop out of college and keep doing whatever it is you are doing to get all that money.

Just tell those in the class what I tell my students: "You are either a hunter or a scavenger."
The looks I get could kill, but then again, they wouldn't have the guts.

A good case in point to bring up would be Kruger National Park in RSA. Currently over twelve thousand elephants reside in a space that could handle between five and seven thousand without major damage. The elephants are uprooting trees and doing major changes to the landscape. The only predator of significance to control elephant populations is man, and while in the past, humans nearly hunted elephants to the brink of extinction, that is not at all the case today.

I am a hunter: a member of the world's oldest profession, which predates the other profession that lays claim to that title. The first proficient hunters fed their family/tribal groups. The hunting of animals and the eating of meat was probably the one thing that enabled man to take some time off from the pursuit of food to think, thus developing his brain. Your vegetarian proffessor probably belongs to another species if he thinks vegetarianism is normal.

In my experience, there are two kinds of human beings: Those who kill animals to provide food, and those who eat what someone else has killed. The non-killers can claim to have clean hands whilst chomping on sirloin. The argument that cows and pigs are raised for food is not persuasive to the cows and pigs. I don't classify vegetarians as human, at least not normal humans. Those who oppose hunting have a perverted view of how nature works.

In Europe the act of hunting has become linked with class struggle politics and environmental politics with some of the most outrageous information you can imagine being spouted on radios and television. I just saw the film "The Last Trapper" here in France last week. While romanticized as a film can be, it does have the merit of putting ecosystem destruction as the enemy of wildlife and not the trapper. At the end of the movie there is even a blurb from the World Wildlife Federation saying they approve the film. So loggers are the enemy in that fairy tale. Until mass media start showing hunting as favorable for the environment, any discussion with a non-hunter usually runs into the brick wall of their ignorance. Others on this thread have already said it, and I will repeat it, tell the curious that you are making a sizeable financial contribution to the governments and the people who are preserving habitat for wild animals in the most effective way known to date: paying to hunt.

I also point out to these pea brained morons that no thought went to the welfare of all the animals their cozy subdivisions disposed (bulldozed and killed) to make room for their flatulent vegetarian arses.

When asked, "You killed a What. . .?"
I find that the following reply works for me.

"Yes, I killed it! I Killed it I took it's horns and hide, and whenever possible I ate it's flesh! I prefer to get my food as a predator. If you don't hunt, you are just a vulture!

Vaopodog...

What a classic.."Why would anyone ever want to kill one of those"..."I like the sound they make when they fall"....I almost fell out of my chair. Will definitely have to stow that one away for future use!

Thank you Douglast that link provided exactly the clip I was referring to.

I did more than my share of degrees in liberal settings. Although maybe not as liberal as some majors, departments or schools (that may be part of your problem). As an aside: Many of the people in your department are the same type that will follow you as peers through the rest of your career. Choose your life carefully.

As to your elephant hunt reactions. Why not use the truth rather than shock?
Although these people are liberal and may vastly disagree with you, they are typically pretty bright and can wrap their mind around a decent concept pretty quickly.
Here's what I've found has worked:
Explain the reality of the "If is stays it pays" concept.
Explain how ALL of the meat is used and greatly needed and appreciated in the local areas.

In my experience many people, including less traveled hunters, have somehow come to the conclusion that there are very few animals left in Africa. If you can dispel that myth and help them understand how controlled African hunting is (quotas, highly trained PH's, trackers, gov. game scouts, etc.) that will really help your argument. Too many people just assume "hunters" drive around killing (and leaving to rot) ALL living things they see.

Now comes the believe it or not part of my post: I've had a hunting oriented website up for 5 years. People surfing, sometimes animal rights types, often send me emails from the website about their frustrations (misunderstandings) of hunting. To this point I've been able to engage EVERY SINGLE ONE in a logical discussion and in many cases get them to apologize for their original comments or cuts about hunting.... that's right, every single one of them!

Sure there are a lot of fun quips but is that really going to achieve our goal in getting people to side with us when it comes time to vote about hunting issues? As societies become more urbanized and influenced by the talking animal movie mentality.... we (as hunters) need to work together on this and get as many people to understand why we hunt as possible. Believe me I don't just bend over and try to placate liberals. Hunting is not a 6 weekend per year hobby for me, I live the life of a hunter, always have and always will. But I've been in enough of these arguments/discussions to make a conscious decision what tact will be of the greatest good for hunting and moreover the animals.

Kyler

You might mention to your classmates that Botswana for example as about 145.000 elephant, which is about 3 times the amount of what the countrys natural resources can sustain in the long term.

I met a PH from Maun, Botswana the other day at a hunting show who mentioned a meeting they had there a while ago regarding the elephant problems. All the bigger players in Maun were present. To make a long story short, the 2 biggest "Photo-safari" companys (wilderness Safaris was one, don't remember the other), openly threatend to close down all their activities in Botswana if any major culling was started... Despite that they can see for themselves the problems in Chobe etc. They are unfortunatly more interested in showing overly huge elephant populations to their customers, so that they can make more money. And lets face it, "photo-safaris" bring in a lot of money to southern africa, so the governments lets themselves be pressured by these fanatics... The fact that hunting can bring in more money with less impact on nature is ignored...

BWN,
you do realize of course that by attempting to change the minds of others in the class -- the vege prof will find a way to flunk you in the class -- or at least not give you the grade you deserve. Is it worth it?

As "liberals", they should be well aware of the concept that people who are "different" should be able to live their lives without discrimination or interference.

Ask them why they are not prepared to offer you similar courtesy.

Make another presentation. Wear your best outfit, walk in with a briefcase, pull out a folder. Open it, pull out a sheet of paper, and repeat these words to them. Uhh Humm..

"Go piss up a rope. Thank you"

Problem solved!

quote:

---

Originally posted by BWN300MAG:
As some of you know I am currently attending college and there is no place on earth as liberal or as full of pussies as an American University. So classes started the other day and in one of my classes I had to stand and deliver an introduction of myself and include any hobbies I may have. Of course I had to mention hunting and my upcoming trip to Zim for an ele hunt. You would have thought I had said I was going to go shoot the pope or something. So if anyone has a good ele charge video out their I would very much like to take it and show it to the liberal pansies so they will shut the hell up! They (including the vegitarian prof.) think it is like shooting an ele at the zoo! Any body out there who can help out a fellow hunter?
Thanks,
Brian

---

While I am a bit stunned that a college student can afford to go elephant hunting, I'll set that aside for the moment...

If you REALLY want to make a difference in this type of stuff, go get yourself a PhD and BECOME a professor. Better yet, become of professor of an environmental-based disciple, but be a Teddy Roosevelt type environmentalist. Then you can, with thoughtful conduct, have the power to influence if not change budding "liberal" minds.

Terry,
I do not know if the P.M. went through or not, so my e-mail is BNewman@TBakerLaw.com. Thanks I appreciate it. If you will give me a mailing address, I will send you the cost of shipping, extra tape, etc. Thanks alot.
To all others thanks for the advise. I am relatively new to the ideas of real big game hunting and any information or suggestions are welcomed.
To those who said drop it is not worth it, I am on my way to becoming an interpersonal dispute resolution consultant, so I just cannot let it lie. I also do not think I should have to. This, for better or worse, is America and I have a right to my opinion just like everybody else. If they cannot take it they can kiss my red, white, and blue ass!

To Kyler Hamann and Matt Norman

Bravo!!


Best Regards,

Geoff

if you want to make a difference you cant do it at the college level. these people have thier minds set and will not kill, period.. the fish and game here in montana has had excelent luck giving special hunting privileges to young hunters.. my beliefe is if you havent killed something by the time your 16 years old you may become an antihunter or nonhunter.. sure lots of guys and guys go hunting later in life and love it, but that is not the norm.. i paid my kids a dollar a head for gophers when they were very young.. i tricked them into killing before they had second thoughts about it. they argue for hunting with thier mother quite a bit, less now that they are older.. the point is if you want to make a difference, take kids hunting.. dont argue with antis, its a waste of time and gives them a stronger resolve.. start with going to your gun club and getting the school involed in a phys ed plan for the students to shoot trap or targets.. .. they must be aqaunted with guns and safety first.. it will be done by lots of youngsters that are curious at that age.some that will have parents that totaly dissaprove, but this gives the boy or girl the choice, and a chance to change.. accidents may be the biggest motive of most female antis.. you can educate people with the fact that hunting is one of the safest sports. basketball is probably the most dangerous i read once.. i laughed years ago when i read the most dangerous (statistical) part of hunting was falling out of a tree.. dave ..

I live in a VERY LIBERAL area around Eugene, Oregon, (University of Oregon). What I have found is the majority of non-hunters believe everything they read in the overly liberal press to be gospel. Most of the time they believe these lies with no actual hunting experience.

If a little time is taken to explain that hunters WERE the first conservationists, and the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars we spend each year on license fees, tags etc. is by in large what funds their conservation, most of these professional students are able to see the light.

Some will never understand, and some will take more than once to understand. You might be the first person to ever tell them the truth about hunting. Sometimes you plant, sometimes you cultivate.

Hunters and shooting sports aficionados need to stick together as a group or we will be wiped out by the professional students and the liberal animal rights people. If you want to fight lies, tell the truth. We will be better off for it.

My Dad told me over thirty years ago the truth about nature:

Eyes in the front, hungry.
Eyes on the side, FOOD.

I get hate emails all the time from my web page. I always take the time to explain how the over population of a species is self destructive, how encrochment as opposed to hunting is the animals enemy; how we feed hundreds of protien starved children; how our conservation fees arm and hire game wardens in Tanzania to protect the elephants, and on and on..I figure if I convert one person then thats a good thing, if I piss them off and alinate them I have accomplished nothing...

Most of my complainents are young, unenformed and after a few emails back and fourth come around to the correct decisions or close enough to give them room for thought as opposed to raw emotion based on nothing but harmones pumping wildly....

I fully agree with those who say that we should always be proud and open about our hunting. We must also show that our hunting is natural and have a role in conservation. We should be careful to pick our fights, and try to avoid doing this from a defensive position, as this gives our opponents the right to make the agenda for the debate. However, even more important is that no one ever should get the impression that we are ashamed of what we are doing, or think that we are trying to hide it.

I have been talking about hunting with a lot of Swedish university-lefties (hey, your liberals are almost seen as conservatives on our universities), and even if many of them are negative to hunting, almost all are still curious and want to hear more. Still, I don't think I would have argued about it with a professor when I was an undergrad... There are other ways.

Regards,
Martin

Atkinson,

Keep up the good work



Hamdeni

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9.3x62:

If you REALLY want to make a difference in this type of stuff, go get yourself a PhD and BECOME a professor. Better yet, become of professor of an environmental-based disciple, but be a Teddy Roosevelt type environmentalist. Then you can, with thoughtful conduct, have the power to influence if not change budding "liberal" minds.

---

I totally agree with this -- and I've done it.

I am indeed a university professor, and teach ecology (as well as statistical analysis and some other things).

I don't hide the fact that I'm a hunter, and I often use examples involving hunting when I teach. None of my students have any doubt about whether or not I hunt by the end of the course!

I've even even taught certain statistical tests by using data state by state crime rates before/after concealed carry was implemented in that state. Some students are surprised to see that legalizing concealed carry is associated with a decline in violent crime... It is fun helping to open their eyes! (and this is why I teach...)

jpb
PS: Perhaps I should add that I've taught in Canada, the USA and Sweden -- and found liberals to enlighten everywhere...

PPS: I did not mean to suggest any comparison between compare myself and Teddy Roosevelt :-)

jpb,

What do the other faculty members think of you and your curriculum?

-Steve