Dear AR guests

Just for your interest only this is a brief message I rec'd recently, although I personally ignore these people it might be interesting to those ( non booking people ) as to what we face in a free society when we go about our normal business day

Cheers, Peter
-----------------------

Comments: YOU ARE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE PEOPLE!!! DONT YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE ALL MURDERERS? HOW CAN YOU CALL THIS ETHICAL KILLING? THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!

Dont you realize that you are limiting our wildlife? Our world needs these animals, needs this biodiversity, and needs their roles in order to function. If you kill our animals, everything will be effected. it is a chain reaction. Yes, even YOU will be effected.
YOU ARE MURDERING SONS OF BITCHES AND I HOPE YOU THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU SIGN UP TO GO ON A HUNT

I don't think this is a positive contribution.

It's always a good reminder to know what's out there. Keeps us on our toes.

Agree with Use Enough. Know your enemy, or at least know your activist twit.

Where can we get a postal address for this person, I would like to send him/her a letter or two.

Wimpie

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:

Comments: YOU ARE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE PEOPLE!!! DONT YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE ALL MURDERERS? HOW CAN YOU CALL THIS ETHICAL KILLING? THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!

Dont you realize that you are limiting our wildlife? Our world needs these animals, needs this biodiversity, and needs their roles in order to function. If you kill our animals, everything will be effected. it is a chain reaction. Yes, even YOU will be effected.
YOU ARE MURDERING SONS OF BITCHES AND I HOPE YOU THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU SIGN UP TO GO ON A HUNT

Peter

So the writer knows you personally?


My saying is very apt for the author
"Another plastic monkey in a concrete jungle."



.

When NBC's Brian Williams did his piece on SCI a few years ago(I think 2000). He brought down a lot of heat on SCI Board Members. I was one at the time. I received an innumerable bunch of e-mails and snail mails such as this, some with death threats for both me and my family.

Guys and Gals,
I have a sister that is one of those people who thinks that hunting is outdated, prehistoric, and only for those who do not have an expanded mind.
Everytime the slightest hint of Africa, Hunting or any other topic that might relate to our sport arises the eyes begin to role and the venom begins to flow.
needless to say we do not spend much quality time together.
Its so bad that when she comes by the house to see her niece and nephew that if there is a mount or curio in the room she will not enter it. I am trying my best to fill up each room .

quote:

Originally posted by Cunningham:
Its so bad that when she comes by the house to see her niece and nephew that if there is a mount or curio in the room she will not enter it. I am trying my best to fill up each room .

Perfect, beat her at her own game!

I receive these e-mails occasionally, about half of them relate to Elephant hunts.

I actually entered into a dialog with one of them and In the end, she had a different outlook.

I get emails like this once in a while off of my website too.

It's not easy, but I've found by taking a deep breath and answering back logically and CALMLY I've gotten an apology and better understanding of hunting from almost all of them.

People that write an email such as that assume we are all mouth breathing idiots, shooting everything we see from a truck while driving drunk and then leaving the meat to rot. They are prepared to get an answer to their email such as: “I wish you was out thar when we was huntin soes I cud shoot you 2!â€

When I (calmly) write back and explain how our hunts work, that I have 3 degrees in ecology, have probably worked to save more species then they can name, that quotas are carefully observed, only certain animals at certain times of year are taken, the meat is always used, etc., etc. these people are taken back.

I think my signature line sums up this problem well.

As I said in most cases I’ve gotten apologies out of the original writers. Once I received an apology from a father whose daughter had been using his computer to terrorize hunting websites. He said he would “Have a talk with her.â€

Actually the most adamantly insulting emails I get from the website are from hunters that think ALL hunting should be FREE no matter what services are provided and what sort of private property is involved. Those folks will always leave me scratching my head.

All the best,
Kyler

quote:

YOU ARE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE PEOPLE!!! DONT YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE ALL MURDERERS? HOW CAN YOU CALL THIS ETHICAL KILLING? THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!

Dont you realize that you are limiting our wildlife? Our world needs these animals, needs this biodiversity, and needs their roles in order to function. If you kill our animals, everything will be effected. it is a chain reaction. Yes, even YOU will be effected.
YOU ARE MURDERING SONS OF BITCHES AND I HOPE YOU THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU SIGN UP TO GO ON A HUNT

Proposed response:

Dear Mr. Biodiversity:

Thank you for your kind inquiry.

We are sorry to inform you that all of our safaris, especially those involving the murdering to extinction of endangered species, are fully booked for the next five years.

We have, however, put your email address on our mailing list.

Cordially,

HORRIBLE MURDERING SONS OF BITCHES SAFARIS, LTD.

Just ask him for his home address and you'll be right over to explain your side...

quote:

YOU ARE MURDERING SONS OF BITCHES AND I HOPE YOU THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU SIGN UP TO GO ON A HUNT

This comment makes me wanna go to the old farm and go deer hunting, I think I will.

I don't think I like being called a homicidal male puppy, whatever the breed!

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I don't think this is a positive contribution.

quote:

Originally posted by Cunningham:
Guys and Gals,
I have a sister that is one of those people who thinks that hunting is outdated, prehistoric, and only for those who do not have an expanded mind.
Everytime the slightest hint of Africa, Hunting or any other topic that might relate to our sport arises the eyes begin to role and the venom begins to flow.
needless to say we do not spend much quality time together.
Its so bad that when she comes by the house to see her niece and nephew that if there is a mount or curio in the room she will not enter it. I am trying my best to fill up each room .

If she is eating any meat, wearing any leather items, she is a hypocrite. As they all come from DEAD animals, none of which died of natural causes.

Nail some antlers to your fromt and back doors. That should keep she out of the house.


Hog Killer

Anyone who stands up in public is at risk of having to deal with this type of thing. I teach hunter safety in NY -- I run into it all too often. Our posters announcing upcoming classes get defaced or torn down. Women accost us in public places if they overhear other people thanking us for teaching their children. I've had people tell me they wish my cancer had killed me before I could kill another animal. One of my co-instructors has received anonymous death threats for almost any course registration (he takes the phone messages because he is home the most).

Now is when the local anti groups get their huffin and puffin going. There's a group called "Win Animal Rights" (WAR) is recruiting "Warriors" to sabotage the NJ black bear hunts this year ( http://www.nypost.com/sports/31759.htm ). You can find out about them at:

http://war-online.org/

Some that are a little closer to my home are:

http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/
http://www.wildwatch.org/
http://www.all-creatures.org/adow/
http://www.animalnation.org/

Some of the NJ groups are:

http://www.savenjbears.com/
http://www.nj-ara.org/

With this many groups around (and for me, I am within *their* striking distance), some of them on the violent side, I think it is very positive for us and our traditions to remember that we are who they are after... using whatever means they can muster.

Dan

Don't they understand in a way we are helping the animals. I don't know about other species of animals but i read whitetail deer will eat themselves to death. In other words they will eat all there food resources and will have nothing else to eat and will starve to death. Thats why it's up to us hunters to keep the population in check so that can't happen.

quote:

Its so bad that when she comes by the house to see her niece and nephew that if there is a mount or curio in the room she will not enter it. I am trying my best to fill up each room

Why bother? Mount a moose head on your front door and hang a bearskin on the back. That should keep her away.

Just out of interest the guy whom castigated me and hunters in particular left that message in my guestbook //

My standard approach in most all cases is to ignore these protaginists whom contact me personally as once you get drawn into their level of debate it is like pissing into a hurricane, it takes more than commen sense to wing them over to our side of the debate.

I dont like to become the proverbial DUNG BEETLE found in Africa pushing s..t backwards all day long

If I am ever confronted in person I tell them to put in a (written complaint) to their local Police Station or other government office as appropriate and leave it at that

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:

quote:

YOU ARE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE PEOPLE!!! DONT YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE ALL MURDERERS? HOW CAN YOU CALL THIS ETHICAL KILLING? THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!

Dont you realize that you are limiting our wildlife? Our world needs these animals, needs this biodiversity, and needs their roles in order to function. If you kill our animals, everything will be effected. it is a chain reaction. Yes, even YOU will be effected.
YOU ARE MURDERING SONS OF BITCHES AND I HOPE YOU THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU SIGN UP TO GO ON A HUNT

Proposed response:

Dear Mr. Biodiversity:

Thank you for your kind inquiry.

We are sorry to inform you that all of our safaris, especially those involving the murdering to extinction of endangered species, are fully booked for the next five years.

We have, however, put your email address on our mailing list.

Cordially,

HORRIBLE MURDERING SONS OF BITCHES SAFARIS, LTD.

MR you made my day!

My brother in law sent me a video, possibly of the PETA member who sent the e-mail. Since my computer skills are one step ahead of solitare, I'm looking for somebody who can post this video on this thread if I forward it to them. Believe me, you will enjoy this one.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by DanEP:
Anyone who stands up in public is at risk of having to deal with this type of thing. I teach hunter safety in NY -- I run into it all too often. Our posters announcing upcoming classes get defaced or torn down. Women accost us in public places if they overhear other people thanking us for teaching their children. I've had people tell me they wish my cancer had killed me before I could kill another animal. One of my co-instructors has received anonymous death threats for almost any course registration (he takes the phone messages because he is home the most).

Now is when the local anti groups get their huffin and puffin going. There's a group called "Win Animal Rights" (WAR) is recruiting "Warriors" to sabotage the NJ black bear hunts this year ( http://www.nypost.com/sports/31759.htm ). You can find out about them at:

http://war-online.org/

Some that are a little closer to my home are:

http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/
http://www.wildwatch.org/
http://www.all-creatures.org/adow/
http://www.animalnation.org/

Some of the NJ groups are:

http://www.savenjbears.com/
http://www.nj-ara.org/

With this many groups around (and for me, I am within *their* striking distance), some of them on the violent side, I think it is very positive for us and our traditions to remember that we are who they are after... using whatever means they can muster.

Dan

I took the trouble to go into those sites. How misinformed are they.

My old story, when are they going to teach predators to hunt their pray humanely?

What is more shocking, they even teach people how to write letters and what to say. Some of the letter writers do not know the full story, they are lured into this BS by sweet talking BS.

We as a hunters comunity must start working together to counter the anti's. One of the first things we must do is to stop bitching amongst each other over silly things. We must get united and better organised. Above all we must not give them any reason to have a go at us.

We will have to unite to be able to counter them.

Guests /

Jaco makes a good point, we need to be tighter and unite, the question is what is the best approach as we collectively DO seriously face a big challenge to our fundemental right to hunt.

I know some people like to berate SCI in particualar as ONLY a (rich mans club) and so on and so forth, that is democracy to critize BUT if you care to take the time and (look carefully) at some of their legal challenges mounted they do serve the hunters rights, so I personally back them with my membership and that is my way of support> I also back and am a member of HSC & NAHC and in Africa we are members of PHASA as well

Of cource they SCI are human like you and I and they wont please us all BUT they sure are better than you and I going around the street like a fool with a placard saying we have a right to hunt, that just does not work in our favour IMHO

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:


Proposed response:

Dear Mr. Biodiversity:

Thank you for your kind inquiry.

We are sorry to inform you that all of our safaris, especially those involving the murdering to extinction of endangered species, are fully booked for the next five years.

We have, however, put your email address on our mailing list.

Cordially,

HORRIBLE MURDERING SONS OF BITCHES SAFARIS, LTD.

Excellent. I almost pissed myself.

These Lunatics are laughable...I would be interested to read any other particularly ignorant rants anyone might have recieved.

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:
Guests /

Jaco makes a good point, we need to be tighter and unite, the question is what is the best approach as we collectively DO seriously face a big challenge to our fundemental right to hunt.

I know some people like to berate SCI in particualar as ONLY a (rich mans club) and so on and so forth, that is democracy to critize BUT if you care to take the time and (look carefully) at some of their legal challenges mounted they do serve the hunters rights, so I personally back them with my membership and that is my way of support> I also back and am a member of HSC & NAHC and in Africa we are members of PHASA as well

Of cource they SCI are human like you and I and they wont please us all BUT they sure are better than you and I going around the street like a fool with a placard saying we have a right to hunt, that just does not work in our favour IMHO

Peter

Strenght lies in numbers that is bottom line.

I do not no of any organisation that is perfect, because it is humans and not robots that manages them. It does not help to sit on the side and critisise them, join them and let your voice be heard. If you have a valid point you will get enough support, that is demoracy.

When I joined PHASA, I asked a lot of questions, one of the answers I got was " we are not a perfect organisation, come and help us to better it." I like that, if I am not a member I have no say, if I cannot attend a conference and I did not forward my proxy, I have no vote.

We must join our organisations and support them, stop the petty fighting and mud slinging and look at the holistic picture. We must also stop critisising our organisations in public, take it up on a personal basis. By public critisism we give our enimies bullets to shoot at us.

Standing together we have a chance of surviving

quote:

Originally posted by C.Wathen:
Don't they understand in a way we are helping the animals. I don't know about other species of animals but i read whitetail deer will eat themselves to death. In other words they will eat all there food resources and will have nothing else to eat and will starve to death. Thats why it's up to us hunters to keep the population in check so that can't happen.

No, they don't understand anything about real biology and ecology. A few years ago, the PA. Game Commission held a meeting with landowners in the suburbs of Philadelphia to discuss what to do about the overpopulation of deer in that area. One woman stood up and said, "Well, why don't you just put those darned deer in a zoo where they belong?" All they know for sure is what they learned about nature from Walt Disney.

quote:

Strenght lies in numbers that is bottom line.

I do not no of any organisation that is perfect, because it is humans and not robots that manages them. It does not help to sit on the side and critisise them, join them and let your voice be heard. If you have a valid point you will get enough support, that is demoracy.

When I joined PHASA, I asked a lot of questions, one of the answers I got was " we are not a perfect organisation, come and help us to better it." I like that, if I am not a member I have no say, if I cannot attend a conference and I did not forward my proxy, I have no vote.

We must join our organisations and support them, stop the petty fighting and mud slinging and look at the holistic picture. We must also stop critisising our organisations in public, take it up on a personal basis. By public critisism we give our enimies bullets to shoot at us.

Standing together we have a chance of surviving

Well said, Jaco.

Jaco is right on. This problem, as originally pointed out by Peter on this thread, is part of the reason why the South African hunting community/industry is now facing the current recommendations to change hunting in South Africa that we are all grappling with. People like this and organizations that they are associated with must be met head on and early on or you are faced with the finger in the dike syndrome. When they are vocal and visible and we are not, but sit back and ignore it thinking that it will just go away because they are fanatics, it isn't going to happen. We must be just as vocal and just as visible as they are to put an end to it. Whatever we as United States hunters can do for our South African brothers and sisters in the hunting industry please let us know. We certainly can confront our own anti-hunting fanatics with the facts and with reason. I did just that in the Atlanta airport last June with an anti-hunting female college professor. By the end of the conversation she was having lunch with me and my hunting companion. I also got the chance to talk to an anti-hunter on the plane over to Jo'burg a few hunting trips ago and managed to change the attitude that she had about hunting. If we all do our part and not sit back thinking the next guy will do it or it won't affect us, then we will be doing the right thing for a change. With all due respect to my good friend 500 grains, that is why I believe that this is a positive thread for discussion.

Peter,

Hardly a week after my "conversation" with an anti hunter you get this crap from another nut case. Sometimes, I really wonder if it would be worth registering a site http://www.petahunting.com or http://www.petameatstores.com just to piss off these morons.

The number of hard-core anti's (in the US, at least) is not very large. Unfortunately, they number about as many as the hunters. For the most part, the remaining 80% of the population tends to tolerate hunting (at least, according to the kinds of numbers I've been seeing, hearing, and repeating). That 80% that tolerates us ranges in feelings from being sort of positive about hunting, to feeling hunters are slobs, but game needs to be managed, to feeling the gov't should really try to find some alternatives sometime or other.

It's very hard to flip that 10% hardcore anti group. They are all tied up with their feelings about hunters victimizing animals. Likely they identify strongly with their perception that animals are helpless victims that need to be protected --- the stuff that comes out in the emotional outbursts includes language like "rape," and "torture," etc... certainly things that are not a part of hunting. Rather, it seems to be victim/savior stuff that is going on in the heads of too many people in this world these days.

It is much easier to have an impact on the 80% "in the middle." These folks are definitely worth the effort. You'll have much bigger impact, and when you succeed, you're much more likely to have gotten many more folks for your effort than the 10% of the hardcore fanatics could give you.

Bottom line: its NEVER a waste to try; but it is a waste to try to convert EVERYONE. Also, the message that these different groups needs to hear is different -- target that 80%. Make sure you make it clear that when you look in the mirror, you don't see the sadistic victimizer that the anti's claim you are. Show them what you DO see in the mirror. If you can communicate empathy and sympathy, some introspection, and make it make sense how a hunter can care about the animals they are hunting, you've gone a long way towards reaching a ton of people...

At least, in my experience and opinion...

Dan

Currently PETA is targeting school children with a campaign about dads who fish, saying to the children that if their dads fish (and hunt) they would also harm or kill the children's pet cats or dogs. This was highlighted on Fox the other night with Bill O'Reilly. It was ridiculous to all of us, but think of the impact on children and what they are going to be or do as they grow older. We need some more Ted Nugents among us. . .

I think one thing we can do is boycott movies, TV programs that are produced by or starred in by an9imal rights fanatics. Look how much it hurt the Dixie Chicks when they showed their opinions on GWB. I refuse to watch anything that has any of the PETA fanatics in such as Pamela Anderson, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:
I get emails like this once in a while off of my website too.

It's not easy, but I've found by taking a deep breath and answering back logically and CALMLY I've gotten an apology and better understanding of hunting from almost all of them.

People that write an email such as that assume we are all mouth breathing idiots, shooting everything we see from a truck while driving drunk and then leaving the meat to rot. They are prepared to get an answer to their email such as: “I wish you was out thar when we was huntin soes I cud shoot you 2!â€

When I (calmly) write back and explain how our hunts work, that I have 3 degrees in ecology, have probably worked to save more species then they can name, that quotas are carefully observed, only certain animals at certain times of year are taken, the meat is always used, etc., etc. these people are taken back.

I think my signature line sums up this problem well.

As I said in most cases I’ve gotten apologies out of the original writers. Once I received an apology from a father whose daughter had been using his computer to terrorize hunting websites. He said he would “Have a talk with her.â€

Actually the most adamantly insulting emails I get from the website are from hunters that think ALL hunting should be FREE no matter what services are provided and what sort of private property is involved. Those folks will always leave me scratching my head.

All the best,
Kyler