Are we seeing the end of taking our own rifles to Africa?

18 February 2010, 07:45

quote:
Originally posted by pinotguy:
quote:
Originally posted by RBHunt:
When I use a shotgun in Africa, for small game at night, I always arrange for a 12 gauge to be available, and bring my own factory ammo. Don't want to be lugging along a shotgun.

How exactly does this work? I have always been under the impression that bringing ammunition for a firearm you weren't travelling with was a big deal.

Please explain this process.

I have done it at least twice in Africa, at my PH's and the owner of the Safari company's suggestion. As far as I know it is not breaking any laws, but then I am not an attorney. Packed a box of 12 gauge shotgun shells along with the rest of the ammo, stayed under the weight limit and declared them, was not questioned by the airlines or on the other side when I arrived. I prefer a shotgun if I can get the PH to go out at night and shoot the "little ones" - genets, civets, mongoose and all the little critters that run around only at night. I also had a blast shooting hyrax in the rocks around Lake Kariba at Chete. Also good for jackels, guinea fowl and vervet monkeys in the day time.

18 February 2010, 08:30

Adrian Parham

Chartering aircraft to africa for a hunting junket is a non starter. There are many reasons why this dog won't hunt, too many to begin to list here.

Hunting in africa has been a humbling experience for me. The clash of cultures, the relationships or lack therof between racial, ethnic, and tribal groups. The sky seems different,the clouds, the night sky is also different. I now know where all the stars that left the night sky of my youth have gone. Every bird, insect,and every flower, they're all different. The very rhythms that govern the flow of life, the flow that takes us to places, and for reasons, incomprehensible to the european(a few hundred years removed) mind. I will return no matter whose firearm I carry as I experience these things.

The younger of those in our group, I believe, will not only see the end of taking guns to africa but the end of hunting in africa itself. When this happens the mystery will be gone and thankfully, so will I. Go while you can whatever it takes.

18 February 2010, 09:12

RBHunt

quote:
Originally posted by Adrian Parham:
Chartering aircraft to africa for a hunting junket is a non starter. There are many reasons why this dog won't hunt, too many to begin to list here.

Hunting in africa has been a humbling experience for me. The clash of cultures, the relationships or lack therof between racial, ethnic, and tribal groups. The sky seems different,the clouds, the night sky is also different. I now know where all the stars that left the night sky of my youth have gone. Every bird, insect,and every flower, they're all different. The very rhythms that govern the flow of life, the flow that takes us to places, and for reasons, incomprehensible to the european(a few hundred years removed) mind. I will return no matter whose firearm I carry as I experience these things.

The younger of those in our group, I believe, will not only see the end of taking guns to africa but the end of hunting in africa itself. When this happens the mystery will be gone and thankfully, so will I. Go while you can whatever it takes.

Don't want to change the direction of this topic, but what you say is very true! One of my most fond memories of Africa is from an early hunt, we were hunting in an area that was not previously being used for hunting by this safari company; the camp was new, no generator, sleeping in tents, a twelve volt battery with wire twisted to it to provide a light, and we were eating dinner by campfire light. The sky was clear, with a million stars - not like back home, instead of the Big Dipper there was the Southern Cross. I could smell that mopane wood smoke smell from the camp fire, hippos were splashing in the river, and I had just finished a meal of crocodile tail steak and impala liver. All was right in the world! Go while you can and take your gun while you can!

18 February 2010, 09:34

Tapper2

I love Africa, but ,no gun, no trip. I also love Argentina, Canada, Alaska, Montana, Wyoming and several others where traveling with guns is not a problem. Borrowing a gun is like borrowing a dog, you don't know it and it doesn't know you. Just doesn't work......Tom

18 February 2010, 10:04

Use Enough Gun

One thing that does concern me is the push by the UN to get the United States to enter into the small arms limitations treaty that they and the most virulent anti-gun groups have been pushing for years. As you all know, when President Bush was in office, it was flatly rejected and that rejection brought out all of the demons of hell on the decision (thanks be to our former ambassador to the U.N., John Bolton!) The Obama administration and Hillary Clinton are pushing just for that very thing now. That treaty may spell the end of firearms taken abroad.

18 February 2010, 10:13

jdollar

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Norman:
I love my personal firearms. I love load development and setting them up just the way I want them. BUT...traveling with a firearm has become a real drag. I've had issues with TSA going to Texas. I've had issues in Argentina. I've had issues in Jo'Burg even with a paid meet-and-greet escort. Twice my firearms in Jo'Burg were nearly ripped off before my eyes. Plus when I travel I like to do a day or two of touring in connecting places (Frankfurt, Buenos Aires, Cape Town, Swakupmund, etc). The logistics of where/how to store a firearm for a couple days becomes daunting.

So flame me if you want but my international hunting will include renting firearms. Outfitters/PH's take note...the quality of the firearms available to me will be a big factor in deciding if you get a booking! I like traveling as a simple tourist and then concentrating on hunting once I get there.

i agree. so far i have taken kudu,sable, gemsbok, jackel,leopard, 2 crocs, hippo, red duiker, rusa stag(in New Caledonia), suni, bushpig, warthog, bushbuck, mountain reedbuck and a helluva lot of guineas, doves and sand grouse with camp guns. they all went bang when i pulled the trigger and hit what i aimed at. that's about all i care about. and it sure made a 4 day layover in Sydney a lot easier.

18 February 2010, 13:43

Matt Graham

quote:
Originally posted by ozhunter:
This is crazy and unfair considering most airlines allow add weight allowances for "other" sporting goods.

not any more I dont think mate.... they dont make allowances for anything

18 February 2010, 14:15

Don Edwards

I have 4 separate "African Adventures" under my belt thus far. As other's have already noted, a HUGE part of the total experience was the acquisition and preparation of my firearms and ammunition. Take that out of the picture by increased "hassle" and or cost, reduce the experience to merely showing up and having your PH hand you a rifle, and I wouldn't walk across the street for it.

That said, sadly...the airlines could care less if I travel or not.

18 February 2010, 14:18

shakari

I guess we also need to bear in mind that if such a ban ever did happen, it wouldn't apply just to Africa but to all air travel to anywhere in the world.

Still, the good news is no more excess baggage costs and no more buggering about with permits and all that other tosh.

As they sang in 'Life of Brian' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

18 February 2010, 14:51

Rug

I say we just Do Not let it happen. This is as others have said more mindless restrictions on hunters .
All hunters worldwide must fight these crazy ideas Tooth and Nail
We are paying our own way.

18 February 2010, 15:01

Dom

quote:
Originally posted by jhaney:
. . . I read the Lufthansa rumor here, but I have never heard that substantiated.
Jim

I can substantiate it, and this doesn't just apply to flying to Africa. I had to pay I think it was about $75- per gun (x2) on a flight from Frankfurt to USA just last year, and the flight was Lufthansa.

I also agree it's BS if you get weight allowance for 'other' sporting goods like surfboards or golf clubs, what's up wit dat?

Waidmannsheil, Dom.

18 February 2010, 20:45

fredj338

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Norman:
I love my personal firearms. I love load development and setting them up just the way I want them. BUT...traveling with a firearm has become a real drag. I've had issues with TSA going to Texas. I've had issues in Argentina. I've had issues in Jo'Burg even with a paid meet-and-greet escort. Twice my firearms in Jo'Burg were nearly ripped off before my eyes. Plus when I travel I like to do a day or two of touring in connecting places (Frankfurt, Buenos Aires, Cape Town, Swakupmund, etc). The logistics of where/how to store a firearm for a couple days becomes daunting.

So flame me if you want but my international hunting will include renting firearms. Outfitters/PH's take note...the quality of the firearms available to me will be a big factor in deciding if you get a booking! I like traveling as a simple tourist and then concentrating on hunting once I get there.

To each his own, but I see no point in practicing w/ my rifles & loads & then hunting w/ someone elses by choice. Traveling in general has gotten mor difficult. Then again, that is the point of terrorism isn't it? Other than the slight add'l. hassles w/ baggage, I have never had issues traveling w/ guns here or to Africa.
My last trip in 08 to hunt w/ Vuaghan Fulton, took me through Frankfurt on Luft. On the return the wife & I spent 5days in Germany seeing sites. I just left my rifle in the casee in customs. A bit of extra hassle w/ paperwork & picking the rifle up, but no big deal. Crap happens, but good planning usually wins the day. Spending $300/gun on a $12K+ trip sucks, but so does buying travel insurance, paying for a bush flight, tipping, etc.

18 February 2010, 23:17

Idaho Sharpshooter

Heck, think of the money you could save by not even owning firearms. No expensive Double Rifles or bolt guns, no hassle with component shortages, no dedicated area to set up reloading tools, or storage. Man, why didn't I think of that? Anybody want to buy all this clutter cheap?

Even better, why not give up hunting completely? Taking pictures is a lot better for you, and the $$$ you save could be donated to the various governments in Africa you would have hunted with to improve the lot of the general populace instead of just lining the pockets of those millionaire PH companies.

Yep! That is what I am going to do. The day after they admit me to the VA Old Soldiers Home!

Rich

19 February 2010, 07:44

RBHunt

I don't like using a borrowed gun, I think I probably shoot better using my own weapon and ammo. But if it means using a borrowed gun or not hunting Africa or anywhere else you have to fly to? Sort of like what Tom Selleck said as Matthew Quigley in "Quigley Down Under" referring to a hand gun - "didn't say I couldn't use one, just said I had no use for one".