I see the topic below on Rigby Rifles and Corbett's rifle and am curious - Are they BACK from the abyss in California and the Boddington investment?

I am not sure I remember the facts but what I do remember is that Rigby changed hands, was moved to California and Craig Boddington has something to do with it or invested in it. (This is not a slam on CB).

Something went wrong in California, someone bought the name and the records.

Now it is back in London (where it belongs in my opinion).

My question is - Are they BACK? Can they or do they compete with Holland and Holland and Heym and others in the super upscale rifle market?

Would you commission them to build you a rifle?

Rigby now belongs to Blaser. The same applies to Mauser.

Rigby is therefore building rifles on Mauser actions, under the caring eye of Blaser.

I have not yet seen a new Rigby, but I have handled two new Mauser 98. Lots of very sharp corners, a pleasure for a Germanic engineer's eyes, but a pain on the knuckles to handle. Very machine-like, and soulless.

Let's see what British hands can do to that... and let's hope for the best.

In my opinion, yes; but I am sure many will speak up and passionately disagree with me in typical AR fashion.

I love and admire good craftsmanship, especially in firearms. Only the person laying down his/her hard earned coin can decide if it is worth it or not.

I commissioned one of the first London's Best in .275 Rigby when Marc Newton became the Director and moved them back to London. I had met Marc a few years prior and my wife and I have stalked deer with his family and visited Rigby in London. He knew I was interested in a rifle and that I wanted to do something special for mine and Clara's 20th anniversary. When he became the Director of Rigby, I placed the order. Marc is a total gentleman and is extremely knowledgeable and passionate about fine guns. He saw to it that Clara and I received more than we could have imagined. The rifle is beautiful and shoots great.

I have been blessed to know and shoot a lot of very fine firearms. I think Rigby has returned in fine form. I sold a lot of guns to buy our Rigby, but I have no regrets.

By the way, I really enjoyed your trip report for your recent hunt. Thank you for sharing.

Safe travels................Larry

Have you been living in a cave ?
Yes the enterprise is back in London. Basically re-finishing and stocking Mauser Barreled actions.

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:
Have you been living in a cave ?

Look at his reports in signature line, he has been hunting

The Dangerous Game rifles use modern mauser actions. I think the other grade rifles use older mauser actions. Our rifle has an older mauser action with the thumb cut out.

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:
Have you been living in a cave ?

Look at his reports in signature line, he has been hunting

Fair enough.

Unfortunately his knowledge of the gun industry outside (Oh ... I see he is from Oaklahoma ) is limited.

Seriously. They don't compete with H&H IMHO. I doubt they can build a true 'one off' (very few can 'in house' having to resort to The Trade). They are probably a level or two or three down from a true bespoke maker.

Code4:

Have you seen a "London's Best" or "Rising Bite" Rigby? I am not sure how much more bespoke they can be unless they forged all the metal from ore and grew the tree for the wood.

I doubt they can build a true 'one off' (very few can 'in house' having to resort to The Trade). They are probably a level or two or three down from a true bespoke maker

Spot on IMO

The way I understand it is they are making rifles the same way they were back "in the day" I.e. get barreled actions from Mauser and go from there. I don't feel they bear any resemblance to the USA based Rigby at all. Just a completely different feel to the operation that is focused on doing things the way they were done when Rigby built its reputation.

Rigby passed away along time ago.Whoever is building rifles today should use their own name,IMO.

Seriously Shootaway?!?!!

...and Winchester, Browning, Holland & Holland, Purdey, Merkel, Ford, Dodge, etc. (in your opinion) should do the same?

uhumm. Don't be too quick to paint with a broad brush.

Even though ownership of Holland & Holland has changed over the years, they are building rifles at the same factory that was built in 1898 by Henry Holland. Some modern machinery is used but, for the most part, the gun and rifle building is basically same as it has been for over 100 years. Their flagship gun, the 'Royal' has been made for 125 years. Yes it has undergone refinements in that time, the latest major one being in 1926 (if I recall correctly) when they added the assisted opening feature.

Some of the other makers have not only changed hands but have shifted production to different cities and even different countries. Methodology and resultant products of some of these companies have also changed considerably, sometimes for better but too often for the worse.

As I understand it, the Big Game offerings are built for the rack within preset specifications that allow for few options. Rigby also offers bespoke guns on the same actions. In my personal opinion the Big Game rifles are well made and well worth the price. Yet I consider them more of a European Mauser built to English specifications than a true British rifle. I say this not because of ownership or origination of the parts. Rather, it is based on my personal observation that they retain a subtle Germanic flavor that the liberal amount of British seasoning applied cannot quite conceal. Is that bad? No, not at all. But they are what they are.

quote:

Originally posted by SFRanger7GP:
Code4:

Have you seen a "London's Best" or "Rising Bite" Rigby? I am not sure how much more bespoke they can be unless they forged all the metal from ore and grew the tree for the wood.

I've seen H&H rifles inside their shop front. Rust blue was present on a few older 2nd hand rifles and their special orders. The Rigby rising bite is CNC machined. Go to Westley Richards for a true full in house build. Even Purdey use rifle barrels from 'outside'. There are gunmakers in the US that are the equal in quality and finish without the price of claiming to be bespoke.
Edit: Resale ... well, thats what the buyer will pay ......

Code4, I have been in the H&H factory a couple of times. They make their double guns and rifles and O/U guns themselves including actions and barrels. They do build bolt rifles on outside actions but other than that the bolt rifles are all H&H. I had them make two firearms for me. Both were completely dreamed up in my mind and executed to my specifications by H&H. One was on one of their double gun actions and the other was on a single shot action from an action maker that I specified. Even at that, the single shot action was modified by them as I requested and everything else, including barrel, was done by them. I can say with certainty that Holland & Holland does offer bespoke guns that are "true house" builds and British black and color hardening are a regular part of what they do.

Without question, we have no companies in the USA the likes of H&H, Purdey, WR, Boss, and Rigby

I can understand you defending the resale value. If I'd spent 3x the price of a similar rifle made without a 'Name' I would too.

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:
Have you been living in a cave ?

Look at his reports in signature line, he has been hunting

Fair enough.

Unfortunately his knowledge of the gun industry outside (Oh ... I see he is from Oaklahoma ) is limited.

Seriously. They don't compete with H&H IMHO. I doubt they can build a true 'one off' (very few can 'in house' having to resort to The Trade). They are probably a level or two or three down from a true bespoke maker.

Code4,
I am not a "gun" guy. I like the new Winchesters and I splurged on a takedown by HS Precision. I struggle to appreciate the real expensive custom guns. I ask the questions just to educate myself. I have owned Dakota rifles but sold them as my Winchesters shot better. There are a lot of very knowledgable folks on AR and I was curious.

Code4, if your point is that we have companies in the USA the likes of H&H, Purdey, WR, Boss, and Rigby then you are misinformed. The closest we have are "custom" and "semi-custom" rifle companies that employ multiple smiths to perform differing parts of the production. Their products, nice as they are, lack the workmanship and quality worthy of being called "best" grade. Unlike the UK, we do not have any company that hires a master actioner, a master at barreling, a master stocker, a master engraver, and master finisher along with apprentice and journeyman assistants as required. To get that level of workmanship in the USA people engage one gunsmith to action and barrel, another to stock, a different one to engrave, etc. The "bespoke" rifle goes back and forth across the country in various states of assembly until it is finally completed. Often there is one primary gunsmith engaged to coordinate the sending about and finish things up but sometimes that is not the case. The result can be a stunning rifle of 'best' quality but it is a collaborative effort. For that reason, in the USA, we are accustomed to new rifles being described as "action by such-and-such, ABC brand barrel contoured and fitted by whats-his-name, metal work by so-and-so, stocked by this-guy using that-guy's wood, engraved by somebody, rust blue by another guy, so-and-so's bottom metal, and company A sights and grip cap. That's very different than describing a rifle as a Rigby 'Big Game'.

Shotguns? You cannot really get a bespoke shotgun made in the USA.

Grenadier: Would you consider the Shiloh Sharps a true bespoke rifle?

http://www.shilohrifle.com/why.php

From their website: "Our Company manufactures everything from our own barrels down to the screws we use to assemble your rifle. In 1996 we started our own Foundry and so all your sharps parts are cast in house which makes the quality control exceptional."

I ordered one of these beautiful rifles for my retirement gift to me when I retired from the army in 2004.

We have gone slightly off topic but a lot of good information is being shared. Maybe we should start a thread in "custom built rifles"?

Safe travels.............Larry

Marc Newton is a very good friend and I agree with one of the previous gentlemen's comment regarding him being a true gentleman with a passion for rifle building. Anyone who has a doubt about their bespoke rifle building capabilities would seriously reconsider their comments until they have actually undertaken a visit of their factory and talked about building one of their Best rifles with Marc and his team of experts. He has craftsmen there with experience that would rival most English gun builders. I think he has done very well in bringing the Rigby name back to where it is supposed to be and people are quick to affiliate their 'big game' series to their 'Londons Best' models. The difference between the two is reflected in the price you would pay for a base model big game and the Londons Best.
All I am saying is handle a Londons Best rifle which is comparable to any Holland and Holland rifle that they would build today. I have been to both factories and let me assure you that the service offered by John Rigby and Co and quality of their rifles will have people talking for years to come. They will do stuff to a bespoke rifle that will rival any of the top bespoke gun manufacturers in England today. Hell they might even surpass a few!

quote:

Originally posted by SFRanger7GP:
Grenadier: Would you consider the Shiloh Sharps a true bespoke rifle?

No, I would not. They are a wonderful company and they make some very nice rifles. They offer a set of standard models and then offer a list of "Custom Features". They will build a rifle with "Extra length of pull", for instance, but they don't offer a stock made to a customer's individually measured specifications. My measurement sheets from fittings of try guns list LOP to heel, LOP to center, LOP to toe, length at comb, length at heel, cast at heel, cast at face, cast at comb, and cast at toe. A bespoke maker will stock to those specifications even if the customer requires a crossover stock. To take it further, I have seen a couple of bespoke guns made for people who needed a tremendous amount of cast and the rear of the action was manufactured curved to conform to, and blend in with, the bend of the stock!

Individualized stocking is only one example. Other examples are building a rifle to a specified weight (within reason), having a customer specified balancing point, customer requested metal stippling and checkering, and alterations in the shape of the trigger guard, action tangs, safety lever, etc. Bespoke means made to order. You can get it all done in the USA, but only by sending it from place to place.

Njati - There are no flies on the Big Game. They are made exceptionally well. Yes, they are made for the rack but other bespoke British makers create rifles for the rack as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Code4, I have been in the H&H factory a couple of times. They make their double guns and rifles and O/U guns themselves including actions and barrels. They do build bolt rifles on outside actions but other than that the bolt rifles are all H&H. I had them make two firearms for me. Both were completely dreamed up in my mind and executed to my specifications by H&H. One was on one of their double gun actions and the other was on a single shot action from an action maker that I specified. Even at that, the single shot action was modified by them as I requested and everything else, including barrel, was done by them. I can say with certainty that Holland & Holland does offer bespoke guns that are "true house" builds and British black and color hardening are a regular part of what they do.

Without question, we have no companies in the USA the likes of H&H, Purdey, WR, Boss, and Rigby

To be specific - they may make their own actions and shotgun shotgun barrels in house, but there are (were) only ten companies in Europe which make rifled barrels. One of those (Border) appears to have disappeared in the last year or so.

The "best" gunmakers (including H&H - no matter what they may say) buy their barrels from those makers - most from Lothar Walther - and nothing wrong with that.

I do in fact have two rifles with Border cut rifled barrels.

Here are some pictures of the rifle Marc presented to Clara.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...371035702#6371035702

It has an original Oberndorf large ring intermediate action and a Walther barrel. Marc and I talked regularly while it was being built and his advise and expertise helped to make it special. Clara was fitted for the stock when we visited Rigby in London.

It shoots as good as it looks and we are very happy with it.

I am sure currently Rigby produces masterpieces of rifle workmanship, however, lets face it the Rigby family are long gone from rifle making and all that remains is the name of Rigby and its records, however that is not to detract from the excellent rifles and skills of the present collaboration under the Rigby name.

Rigby was owned by a Mr.Roberts, of London, some years ago and they likewise produced fine quality rifle under the that name.

Mr. Ronald Wharton who was employed there and eventually set up on his own produces beautiful best quality rifles for all the world like a Rigby.

A friend of mine has a rifle built by Ronald Wharton, chambered for .270 Win with a 26'' barrel and it is a joy to handle and shoot.
It drives the RWS 150 gr KS bullet in excess of 3000 FPS and is highly accurate.

In North America too there are great rifle builders, as good as anywhere else in the world in my opinion, best quality rifle manufacture is not confined to the London gun makers exclusively.

How far have many top auto makers gone from their originators? Lamborghini is owned by VW now. As is Bugatti.

How about guitars? The famous Gibson Les Paul played by Slash on the Appetite for Destruction album, and which has since been cloned by Gibson isn't even a Gibson. It was built by a guy named Chris Derrig.

Point being, either the name makes the quality, or the people making the goods make the quality. I put my trust in the latter.

If you handle a Rigby and think they are "back," then they are. If not, well, what difference does that really make?

So a custom, bespoke Mauser isn't good enough for you? Excuse me, you were probably a frat boy in college. Never liked frat boys.