Ladies and Gentlemen,
I was talking to my old friend Roy Vincent yesterday, who is visiting the Kruger National Park.

He said he saw an elephant with one tusk he believes to be a 100 pounds.

If there is anyone out there with serious money let me put you on a list. We will have a handful of 100 pounders to sell in about two months time but I cannot provide any details until it is certain. Once I am able to explain you will know I am not kidding.

VBR,

Ted Gorsline

While in Kenya at Tsavo and Amboseli National Parks we saw three bulls that would be around 80LBS. What impressive Animals.
Two PHs I know hunt down at the border with Kruger and Zimbabwe. Boy they would love to see him come across along with some of those Kruger Big main Lions.
Here are two, note the red soil colour from Tsavo.


ozhunter

That bottom photo of the bull with the redish hue looks photo-shopped.

Duke, on of krugers big tuskers was seen in the South of the park recently

Those are magnificent animals.Personally, I would prefer them walking free, enhancing the beauty of the landscape, passing on the genes down the generations etc, than adorning a trophy wall.Equal sporting excitement can be derived from lesser beasts. JMHO.

Best- Locksley, R.

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:
Personally, I would prefer them walking free, enhancing the beauty of the landscape,
Best- Locksley, R.

this could be interesting

I have shot 14 elephants, and want to shoot more, however i wouldnt shoot a 100lb elephant

Most (but perhaps not all) 100 pounders are old elephants. Old elephants are like old buffalo. They are on the last of their teeth, losing condition, and unlikely to be in good enough physical condition to compete with young bulls to do any further breeding.

If they are in an accessible area like a park where people can look at them fair enough but if they are way back in the hills no one is going to even know they are there.

If they can, they will try to set up shop in a localized area usually near a swamp where their teeth will continue to work on the soft vegetation and then they will die.

There are two things to do with them. Sell them to a trophy hunter as a commodity and bring in a great deal of money or use the tusks as porcupine feed.

VBR,


Ted Gorsline

Ted,

You make an excellent point.

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:
Those are magnificent animals.Personally, I would prefer them walking free, enhancing the beauty of the landscape, passing on the genes down the generations etc, than adorning a trophy wall.Equal sporting excitement can be derived from lesser beasts. JMHO.

Best- Locksley, R.

To each his own. Have you hunted elephant? I happen to like to see animals walking, but I like to hunt them as well.

Do you enjoy a good steak or lobster? Those animals that produce it can be pretty in their pastures and water also.

We went through Kruger in 2004. I think we saw elephant at this very same place ... a couple of cows with young'ns. The mock charged a Toyota pickup truck that wasn't at all certain it was a mock charge ;>

I'd have fallen out of the hunting car if I'd seen an ele like that one! Would have been a good thing they checked for guns on the way into the park (kiddling of course).

Haven't figured out how I feel about hunting ele. An old bull beyond contributing to the gene pool sounds like one I could justify going after. Shame I could not afford it.

I have it on what I condider a reliable source that a 100+lb elephant was recently taken in Kenya-yes Kenya...It was injured by another elephant and put down..

I love to hunt and so I don't have a problem killing things. I think anybody who wants to hunt elephants should. There are plenty of them, the fee they bring must do a lot for ensuring their future, the locals must appreciate the fresh meat and let's face it - elephants are as destructive as Hell.

As for me; I watched the Buzz Charelton video last night and walked away not wanting to do that. There's something about the elephants' intelligence and apparent affection for their kind that turns me off on killing them. Rest assured however, if one is bearing down on me in a charge, I will have no reluctance to pull the trigger on it.

As a sport, it's not for me (like I have the cash - not) but I admire those who do hunt them.

This photo was taken in Kruger few years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Hunter:
....... let's face it - elephants are as destructive as Hell.

Not so much the numbers as the distribution that is a problem. Botswana and Kruger are taking strain under too high numbers while places like Mozambique can handle a lot more in places. The debate about management options is constantly in the press in both Bots & SA. The greens come with fairy tale solutions and the wildlife managers' hands are tied - and the ecological clock is ticking ...

Ted: We're ready for your explanation. Please don't make us wait a couple of months.

I have just been asked to assemble a legitimate list by a person whose word you can take to the bank.

It is recognized that among AR bloggers most can only take their word to a loan shark.

Ted, can you even give us some idea of what the sticker price of these beasts is likely to be (with tax, options, dealer prep and delivery) - or is it one of those "if you have to ask you can't afford it deals?"

Dear Bwana,

I don't have a price and won't likely have one for about two months. I imagine it will be like a TGTS or Gerrard Pasenisis Safari as far as daily fees go with a graduated trophy fee depending on tusk size but I am not sure about that. There are some 100 pounders in the block but there are smaller elephants too and it will be hunting, not just shooting.

I am just trolling for interested people to contact directly. I won't put anything on the internet myself. If the clients want to do that themselves after they have been on safari they can.

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:
Those are magnificent animals.Personally, I would prefer them walking free, enhancing the beauty of the landscape, passing on the genes down the generations etc, than adorning a trophy wall.

I agree with that for the National Parks. It would be sad if all the heavy tuskers faded into history.

But in safari areas, Ted Gorsline has made a very good point, ie in the end they will just end up as food for the scavengers.

Just imagine, if one was hunting trophy elephant and came across a 100 pound plus bull, would you say, "Lets look for a smaller one."

NitroX said what I would have said.

Good to have them in the parks, good to hunt them.

JPK

So, the big tuskers in the parks, do not wind up as scavenger food?

quote:

with a graduated trophy fee depending on tusk size

That is what I don't like about hunting.

Hunting is supposed to be going out and taking whatever luck you might have.

This is beginning to sound like those pre-packaged, pre-measured farms hunts.

I know, with elephants this might not be true, but, on principle I refuse to go shoot any animal based on this sort of "catalogue" price.

Dear Saeed,

All I know about this elephant thing is that it is legit and I have been asked to compile a list of interested people by a very reliable guy.

I am speculating at the moment about how the elephant pricing will be set up. But I think a sliding trophy fee is likely and it is sometimes a good idea and has all kind of positive mangement applications.

For example, you like hunting buffalo. The buffalo that ought not to be shot are the prime herd bulls. They have the widest horns with both corrugations and points, very black colored bodies, fully muscled hips and backs etc. They do most of the lion fighting.

I think its a good idea to charge a premium for these prime bulls to discourage shooting them and to charge less for over the hill old bulls and scrubby bulls who will always have small horns and who will never breed.

The fun in buffalo hunting is not the hortn size. Its the not knowing how it will end once you pull the trigger.

I think the parks are missing a bet on some of these really big old bulls of all kinds. If they could develop and method of telling that a really old elephant has maybe a month left they ought to put him up for auction on a kind of internet stock market.

They have the option of making a big chunk of loot to help keep the park going, saving the tusks for posterity, and feeding a village or else losing the whole thing to hyaenas and porcupines.

You could even add a hyaena and porcupine feeding tax to the trophy fee,to give equivalent calcium (200 pounds of salt) and 12,000 pounds of goat meat to the porkies and hyaenas and then nobody loses out - not the eco system and not even the elephant.

Because all that awaits him at the end of his days is to be eaten alive by hyaenas when he is no longer strong enough to stand up. Better a bullet than a hyaena.

What really caught my attention a few years ago was an auction in Alberta for a potential record big horn ram. he was in a park but sometimes he came out. The winning bidder gave the game department about US$ 450,000. He didn't get the ram. But the game department got alot of money.



VBR,



Ted Gorsline

Ted,

I am not doubting the legality of it.

But, from my own personal view, any time a sliding scale is applied to any trophy animals, it stops being a hunt for me.

That si why I will never hunt in Europe, where one is required to pay according to the size of the animal shot.

I like to hunt, and I normally shoot very old animals with one tusk, broken horns etc.

Again, this is my own choice.

I have heard of a German elephant hunter offering a million dollars for a 100 pounder. Good luck to him.

Dear Saeed,

The first elephant safaris that German chap ever booked were with my wife. We already put him on the list and are just waiting for the go ahead before we contact him.

To be honest with you the kind of hunting I like to do is to combine exploring, going into new country, that is complete wilderness just to see what is there, and hunting along the way.

I do not like national parks because they are too organized and have too many people in uniforms in them but they have a good reason for existing. Research biologists try to tie them up as their own personal estates.

My biggest disappointment with Africa is that there are people everywhere. You can climb to the top of the most remote peak in a distant misty mountain range and there on top of the mountain will be a guy weaving a basket.

The only two times in my life that I have ever felt what you might call "God" ,and I am not religious at all, were on the Churchill River in Labrador and on the Coppermine River in the North west Territories. You feel it the moment the float plane disappears over the horizon. You are simply engulfed by this indifferent force or power to which you cannot put into words. Makes you feel small and quiet.

One of my companions of the Coppermine River actually went into shock and was a nervous and incoherent wreck until the float plane picked us up.

Isek Dineson said it best when she said God and the Devil" are one. You only feel that in pure wilderness.

I have been trying to get the time to get into a very remote part of South America now for the past two years for myself. Maybe next year. I know the biggest thing there is a tapir (no trophy) but is always fun to see what is over the next hill or around the next bend in the river and do some shooting and fishing while you are at it.

But the great game of the world is under threat and what needed is money and some creative management.



VBR,


Ted Gorsline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ted Gorsline

My biggest disappointment with Africa is that there are people everywhere. You can climb to the top of the most remote peak in a distant misty mountain range and there on top of the mountain will be a guy weaving a basket.

Ted,
This is the same feeling I get when I travel through Africa or see it via "GOOGLE EARTH" where one can see how humans can screw things up.
Unfortunatly born seventy years to late.
ozhunter

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Gorsline:
What really caught my attention a few years ago was an auction in Alberta for a potential record big horn ram. he was in a park but sometimes he came out. The winning bidder gave the game department about US$ 450,000. He didn't get the ram. But the game department got alot of money.

Ted,

Being in a fairly foul mood, I'll apologise up front if I don't manage to be civil, especially as I'm not certain of all the specifics in this story. I am sure I've got the basics right though.

The qoute above is kind of related to what actually happens, but not really close. There are generally 2 hunts auctioned in Alberta every year, one for elk, one for sheep. The winners of the auction are allowed to hunt in ANY wildlife management uint (WMU) in the province during an extended season (about 4 months if I recall correctly). This is opposed to the ussual WMU specific tag and shorter season (2 months? on average. I could be out by quite a bit on that) The specific ram you mentioned may well have been the target of the hunt, but the tag was not for that specific ram, but for any ram the tag holder wanted to shoot.

Again, as I recall the story, 2 people got into a bidding war 3 years in a row, with the same man winning all 3 years. Over the course of the 3 auctions, the same hunter spent about $700,000 (I'm sure some one on the Canadian board will have the actual figure). The hunter went home empty handed the first 2 years and took a huge ram in the 3rd. It wasn't the ram you mentioned, which has disappeared and may have been poached. BTW, since the 2 man bidding wars have ended, the winning price in the last auction was an order of magnitude lower than the previous 3 years.

The reason I jumped on this a bit is that this story played out in the media and the antis kept getting excited and spewing a version of events very similar to the one qouted above. Natural Resources were fairly effective in heading off any real public backlash by simply getting the true story out. Auctioning a special hunt is way more acceptable to people around here than auctioning a specific animal. The later, rightly or wrongly, smacks of canned hunting. These auctioned hunts are certainly not that.

Dean

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Gorsline:
You feel it the moment the float plane disappears over the horizon.

I got the same feeling in my stomach when I lined up a Cape Buffalo as I get when the float plane clears the water Hope I never stop feeling it in either circumstance.

Dean

Dear Dean,

I don't remember the details of this Alberta sheep auction just that alot of money was raised by the game department for a sheep hunt where the sheep wasn't shot. I didn't mean to infer it was a canned hunt. Obviously if the guy didn't get the ram in the hunt I am referring to it wasn't canned.

These elephant hunts are not canned. The place is quite remote and roads have not reached the area yet but the owner of the company will legitimately be able to say there are a few hundred pounders in the block (not in an adjacent park) and that's a rare thing in this day and age.

I get a slightly different feeling from shooting a buffalo than from being dropped off by float plane in a really remote area.

The buffalo shooting begins as a minor adrenalin rush that can can develop into a real adrenalin rush if the shooting is poor.

Getting dumped off on the Coppermine River makes me feel small in the grand scheme of things and cautious.

Lots of fun shooting rapids in a warm southern river near civilization. Doesn't matter if you punch a hole or even lose your canoe. Lose you canoe on the Coppermine and you have very serious and increasingly complicated problems.

VBR,


Ted Gorsline

Ted,

I know this is begining to look like a thread hijack but...

In reading through the cannon of grand "africana" e.g. books by Bell, Neuminan etc. on elephant hunting or Standly "How I Found Livingstone in Central Africa" it appears that there was never a time when one could explore vast uninhabited wilderness in Africa as one can still do in say the N.W.T. or Alaska.

Remote elephant hunting or exploration in Africa meant marches from one village to the next one. While I would like to have hunted Africa when there was more game, I'm not sure there would have been less people.

Best regards;
Brett

Brett: You are partially right. There were definitely alot less people 100 years ago, as malaria and infections were not treatable, but you are right about there being villages everywhere and the explorers going from village to village. But there were fringe benefits. Selous had African children which are seldom mentioned and you needed people to haul out the ivory.

Ted,

I shouldn't have used the word "canned" at all. A loaded word that I used carelessly. My point was a specific animal is not auctioned off, rather a hunt with special season duration and geographic extent and that auctioning a specific animal smells like a canned hunt. Didn't intend to imply the ele hunts were like this however.

As for dumping a boat in the boonies.... Haven't managed it yet but have come close and that is scary. Especially when you are 200 miles and 10 days from the pickup point. To my mind, running Class 3 rapids is not a good idea unless you can walk out in a few hours.

I'm a bit odd in that I've never felt particularily small and insignificant anywhere. I guess I'm usually well aware of my place in the universe and am content with it. I do know what you mean about the feeling of being surrounded by raw power though. Make a mistake or get unlucky (usually the same thing) and the land will grind out your life without noticing or caring.

Cheers,
Dean

I agree with Saeed. Any time I've considered a hunt and noted that a graduated price scale was used for the trophies, I've moved on. I won't consider such a thing. It reminds me of those little catfishing tanks in Texas where you pay by the pound.

If I hunt long and hard to take an extraordinary trophy, I don't want some prick beside me with a calculator running the numbers.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Gorsline:
If there is anyone out there with serious money let me put you on a list. We will have a handful of 100 pounders to sell in about two months time but I cannot provide any details until it is certain. Once I am able to explain you will know I am not kidding.

VBR,

Ted Gorsline

Why does that statement "To sell" make me cringe. Ted I expected more than that out of you.

465H&H

I am sure the only reason you say it makes you want to cringe is because you want to get on your moral high horse for whatever your reasons might be. I cannot even begin to guess what they are nor does it interst me.

If I had said safari to sell it would have meant exactly the same thing - paying to shoot an animal for sport - but by saying 100 pounders it lets those who are interested in such things, and many are, know whats out there.

And if I had just said elephant to sell it would have been out of context. This thread is about hundred pounders.

Just as .465H&H cringed, so did I, but it was at the notion of what this offer might cost, not at the notion of putting a price on a particular animal, or for that matter, what it represents. That is up to the individual.

To me, a 50lber from Zimbabwe is commensurate with a 70lber in Botswana. In terms of price or effort, you will work harder for the 50 in Zim but pay a much lower price. A 100lber in a mysterious place? It does not sound without great physical effort and certainly not without great expense. But, big ivory brings both the best and worst out in men, as does anything of great value, whatever yardstick that value is measured with.

Ted!

I really don't have any problem with a hunt for 100 lbders or advertising as such. If you had said that " I have a hunts to sell with a very good expectation of taking a 100 lb bull" I would have no problem but when you say "I am selling a 100lb bull elephant" the terminology makes me cringe because it smacks of a canned hunt or a guaranteed hunt. Both of which are no-nos for me. I think those types of hunts give the greenies and anti-hunters fuel for their arguments.

As far as me "being on a high moral horse", if being concerened about the image we hunters portray to the general public is being on a high moral horse then I am guilty as charged.

465H&H

Dear 465 H&H,

I see what you mean. You are right. It was a poor choice of words. I will try to pick my words more carefully in the future.