What would you guys choose if you had the option of a .375 (H&H, Ultra Mag, etc.), .416 (Tayler, Hoffman, Rigby, Rem, etc.) or .458 (Win, Watts, Lott). I am laboring over the decision of my next purchase...I wanted the .458 Win a lot, but now that I think about it, the .375 H&H is very appealing as well...also, we can't leave out the .416's I will be using it for elk hunting in thick timber, w/ max shots out to 100yds. I realize that the .375 will take down anything on this or any other continent, (as it has so marvelously done since it's conception), however, do the .416's and .458's knock 'em any deader? I have my eye on a CZ550 in .458 or .416 Rigby or a Winchester classic stainless in .375 H&H. So, I guess the purpose of this post is to weigh the pros/cons and virtues of each caliber, and hopefully aiding in my decision.

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God Bless and Shoot Straight

For elk hunting as you described anything larger than a 338 or 375 is way overkill. A 416 or 458 requires a significantly heavier rifle for comfortable shooting - a weight that is not my idea of fun when I think about rough country elk hunting.

If elk at 100 yards or less was going to be 80% of my hunting, I'd build a 8.5lb 338/'06. I completely understand the fascination with the big guns but there is no point in over doing it.

I use a .416 for my heavy rifle simply because it out performs a .375 and the .458Win. For the great big stuff and when I am feeling particularly mean I shoot my .450 Dakota. However, if I were limited to one gun, I would gladly take my .416 anywhere and would not hesitate to shoot anything with it.

444,
From the looks of your post, you are thinking of a HEAVY for N.A. If it were me, I would go with the WIN. 70 in S.S. It would surely be the heavy for here. If you are going to Africa, this is a GREAT rifle/ cartrige combo and you can base your 'battery' around it, either up or down. I do agree that it will alot of rifle to carry for Elk but you know YOU.
I am taking a .375 and a .416 Rigby. Saving for a Searchy .500 NE. We all have our ideas. Thats one of the great things about having such a selection in this country to choose from.
Good luck with your decision.
SAM

The only animal on this continent that justifies something bigger then a 375 are coastal brown bear. Those that say otherwise simply haven't developed a sufficient respect for the animal.

There is no reason not to use a 416 or 458 for elk, just stick with the lighter bullets, you won't have the recoil to contend with, and trajectory will be plenty flat.

444,
You may have already thought of this, but I'll mention it anyway.
A .416 or .458 may weigh a pound or more heavier than a .375; that extra weight may become a factor by the end of the day.
Just something to consider.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

Thanks guys, this is the input I was looking for, however, I'm what I like to think of as a "strapping young lad" and an extra pound doesn't make much of a difference to me...I have held the CZ550, and it does not SEEM to be as heavy as my Marlin 444ss is. Granted, I have the 444's magazine loaded when hiking and a cartridge belt around the stock, thus increasing the weight with 14 rounds total on top of the rifle's weight itself. So, I'm not adverse to a "heavier" rifle, as a light gun doesn't feel any better than a heavy gun after a day of hiking. I do like the profile of the winchester, and the fact that it is stainless....I know the .375 will handle anything that comes across my path, especially with the Federal 300gr High Energy Trophy Bonded's I'm planning on using with it. However, I am not familiar as how well the .416s and the .458's "knock" game down. In that timber, I want my elk down NOW, and I honestly don't know if either of the .400+ bores "knock" them down any better. I noticed in another post "is bigger really better" or something like that, someone stating that they used their .375 on their first buff, and their .470 on any after that, leaving me to conclude that the .375 lacked the "stank." Anybody else in that boat? I would like to hear from first hand users of the .375 and larger dia. calibers. I already own the .338 Ultra Mag (for longer range elk hunting, 200+yds), and the 444 Marlin for close range work, however I NEED another rifle in a medium or big bore offering, for my *cross my fingers* trip to Africa someday, to hunt Cape Buff. So much of this information gathered here will lead to the purchase of my next rifle.

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God Bless and Shoot Straight

[This message has been edited by the444shooter (edited 01-19-2002).]

Get the biggest rifle you can shoot accurately and quickly if you plan on using it against critters that bite back (or stomp). I personally am a big fan of the 50 calibers, but you did not include them so I would go with a 458 Lott since it will also shoot the Winchester mag, and the Lott is also now available as a factory loaded cartridge from Hornady.

AS to knock down. If you use a weldcore type bullet, which expands quickly the knock down and meat destruction can be simply awesome! Solids will just punch caliber diameter holes through awhole lotta animal. The solid is best reserved in my opinion for the surgical strike against a hard target such as shoulder bones to turn a charge or a broadside shot through shoulder and spine.

Todd E

Since you are going to be hunting elk, of your choices the 375HH is the only way to go. Not one of your choices, but the 338 Win Mag is even better for elk. If your shots are going to be close, with say a max of 200 yards, the 300 WSM would be excellent. If you are looking for a do-all NA big game rifle go with the 338.... As was said above anything over 375 is total overkill for elk. Thr 375 in my book is overkill... Just give it some thought-- practicality wise that is--

Now if you want a rifle that you can someday use confidently on a dangerous game hunt in afrika, a 458 Lott would complement your 338UM very nicely. This is based on what you have said thus far...

[This message has been edited by Buell (edited 01-19-2002).]

444....get a .458 Lott (understand will soon be a factory load) but be careful you don't get one that 's too heavy because the lighter it is the quicker you will develop a flinch and begin to think seriously about what it takes to kill elk...and that's not a "stopping power" rifle...it's something of adequate power that you can shoot accurately. Remember, power is impressive but accuracy is final.

444,
How about a Marlin 95 45/70 for elk in the timber. I get 1950 with a 400 Speer and it absolutly flatens elk. Then get the Lott or Rigby for africa. My Whiworth 458 is at the gunsmiths being rechamberd to 450 G&A.

over .40,
Because I already own the 444ss and shoot 300gr Speers and 330gr LFNGC cast bullets @ 2200fps, so I don't need another lever gun...I'm looking for a BIG gun that I will be able to use for Africa someday, yet still be "practical" for elk, (helps me justify the purchase of it )

DB,
The Lott is what I was considering the most, especially with the CZ550, I would shoot it as a .458 Win until I absolutely knew I was going to Africa w/in a couple years, then rechamber it. I figured that would give me ample time to get used to the recoil. As I've said, the biggest criteria that will determine my choice will be the "knockdown" power that each caliber has, with regards to shots placed in the same spot (e.g. a shot in the boiler room w/ a .375 compared to the same shot w/ a .458) So to narrow it down, I'm trying to decide between the .375 and .458. Now we're getting somewhere, I think

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God Bless and Shoot Straight

444,

Up until this fall I would have just told you to get the .375 H&H and go forth and do great things. I have two of them, one I call the North America and the other I call Africa.

Anyway, I took a loaner .376 Steyr ProHunter rifle to Zim last September. I liked it enough that I bought it after I got back. This is a 40" 9-pound rifle with a 20" barrel that would be great for elk in the timber. I did find a big eland (about twice the weight of a really big bull elk) to shoot with it and the .270 grain Hornady factory load. There is a photo of me, the eland and the rifle on my home page.

I was impressed with the combination of power and moderate recoil in this package.

I have some reports from Zimbabwe of high pressure in .416 Rem rifles on those 40 degrees C and over hot days. That cartridge is loaded to high pressure to get 2, 400 fps with the 400 grain factory loading.

Not everyone can master the .458s, you are your own best judge on this. I would recommend you try one out. I shot rifles up to .577 NE a few years back when I was sorting out what .450 bore rifle I should (or should not) buy. (Just now I am testing a .450 Short Magnum.)

jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

444 shooter I am a begginner to the big bore scene and my first bigbore is a cz .416 Rigby, I love it and yes it kicks but it is I reckon not as brutal as I was told it would be. I love it and now have lay buyed a 602 in .375 H&H to build a .585 Nyatti on, maybe I am an idiot but I just like the big bores they are a hoot. I'll probably never be able to afford to hunt dangerous game but I reckon the rigby loaded with 340 gr bullets would be pretty good for plains game, (I really want to hunt zebra). I reckon you should go with your gut feeling with this choice all calibres you mention are good. I think eventually you should get all the calibres you mention but you have to decide which to get first I suppose.

Regards PC

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You all ready have a 338 you don't need a 375 go with a 416. Then you well be ready for all of them.