Another thread, comparing the .375 H&H and .416 Rigby got me thinking. How much shooting do most hunters actually do with their bigger rifles? In preparation for my safari last year I shot 1150 rounds of .375 H&H besides my lighter calibers, varmint rifles etc in the 3 months preceding the hunt. 1000 rounds through my .416 Rigby seemed a sensible minimum for this year's trip, spread out over 9 months.I'm half-way there BTW. This is in addition to any shooting I do with the .375 and my normal few thousand assorted rounds of lighter stuff.The time spans were determined by the length of time between booking and leaving.
I would have thought this to be normal, considering the price of African hunting. I can afford the hunting, but can't afford to take it lightly either. Lately though, I have been wondering just how much action the big guns actually get, esp by those shooting factory loads in double rifles.
Dogleg

You are a better man than I am Charlie Brown.

I shoot quite a bit, but nothing like that. Your subconscious muscle memory must be supurb.

Most people cannot/will not absorb that much recoil. Shooting light calibers and even air guns can keep you in good shooting form at much less expense to your shoulder and wallet. When the hunt gets close, move to the DG rifles to get/stay familiar with the individual rifle. That is the way I have always done it, FWIW.

quote:

Originally posted by biggametv:
You are a better man than I am Charlie Brown.

I shoot quite a bit, but nothing like that. Your subconscious muscle memory must be supurb.

Most people cannot/will not absorb that much recoil. , FWIW.

The permanent pocket created in my right shoulder will attest to the above, but...

I shot 60 rounds a week for several months before my DG safari, nearly all offhand. During that time I went on other hunts and shot other rifles, but what I did do was make the .375 the rifle when the memory factor weighted in. This level of preparation was worth it in the end.

Shooting too many rounds of a heavy caliber can also develop a flinch, as recoil tends to be cumulative.

With a .416 or .458 I would not recommend more than 20 to 30 rounds per day.

I shoot until I feel comfortable with the rifle. Comfort comes quicker as recoil increases...

500 grains,
30-35 rounds per session with the 416 seems to be about my fun limit, mixed in with any amount of .375 and usually something lighter like my .300 or 7 mm STW. My .375 makes a good trainer for the 416 since they are the same rifle except for caliber and scope.

308Sako,
60 rounds per week with the full power 416 loads will handily meet my number goal. I also do most of practicing from offhand, which makes me somewhat of an oddity at our range. Do you think that 60 rounds per week is typical for some preparing for a DG safari?

Dogleg,60 rds per week of full power 416 and your are going too need a narcotic presciption. Also,a new barrel each week!

Shootaway,
The big-bores aren't particularly hard on barrels. Good luck shooting one out. As for narcotics, you oughta know.

Aren't hard on barrels???? Those big bore rds look like sticks of dynamite!

No, and looks don't count for much. Dynamite is lots bigger.

My practise wiith big bore is mostly with the 375 with 20-30 shots at the range at a time. I use about 10-12 rounds for fast shooting practise and see how quickly I can fire off 3 shots in a 4" target at 30 meters.

The other practise that is quite fun and cheap is with an airgun and a pellet trap. I have one that takes target's of 5" x 5" then I go trough my photos of game and print a nice colour copy of one 5" x 5" and stick it in the trap and then shoot it at 10-15 meters with the small targets and open sights on my airgun the animal seems to be well over 100-150 yards depending on the picture size of the animal. Then I shott at them offhand rest, prone over my knee and whatever position you can take and shoot 5 pellets. Then have a shot placement guide handy and check your shots I ussually shoot 5 shots before I check then mark the shots. Great practise and even if youre great at grouping them you will be surprized at how much of your shot placement is not really the spot you want.
In this way you can practise your shot placemnts and your grouping cheaply and learning the shots you have to make on the specific animal you will be hunting.

Put 900 rounds through my .375 last year in about six months before I went, mainly offhand. Paid off.

Safari-Hunt,
the range where I do most of my practice shooting has its target boards at 25, 50, 100 and 200 yards. When I have the place to myself (Normal) I will often swing between the 25 and 50 on alternate shots or a pair at each, shooting as fast as I can work the bolt. There is about a 90 degree swing between the targets. Longer distances are much more deliberate, but short range reactive shooting seems prudent given my upcoming buffalo hunt.Varmint hunting takes care of the long range practice.
I have both an air rifle and backstop. I'll try the picture idea.

I think the best big bore practice is to actually use it for hunting.

On pigs, deer or other game.

Using full power loads, or using lighter loads if you wish.

Fur, hair, and hide beats paper everytime.

I have a 45-405RCBS mold for my .458Lott that unquestionably is a key possession for my utilization of that rifle. The recoil of a 400 grain cast bullet at 2000fps has little cumulative effect on me. I shot in the neighborhood of 2500 of them at a steel plate "obstacle course" before my first trip to Zim. I probably only shot about 400 full powered loads during that time and agree with the recommendations of 20-40 MAX per session.

NitroX,
That's somewhat easier in Austrailia than Western Canada. Given the opportunity, of course you are right.Pigs are not an option at all, and although there are of couple zones of unlimited deer tags in Saskatchewan there is only a month or two of season where rifles are legal. Coyotes are legal year round, but that is a different set of shooting skills and is far from high volume shooting.
Outback cull huntings is an interesting thought, and one that I would like to explore some day.

Dogleg

PWS,
I have aquired molds for both my .375 & .416 this winter, and intend to load some lower recoiling rounds.I have a fair amount of bullets cast in anticipation of spring. The cast loads should be all I need to practice rapid fire offhand shooting, plus save on headaches and expense.The snow has an annoying habit of gobbling expensive and hard to replace 416 Rigby brass.
I'm glad to see so many respondants aren't shy about getting out and shooting their bigger guns in volume. I was starting to wonder if I was going down the wrong path.

I like to shoot every week, but never put more than ten or fifteen a session through the .416 Rigby. The .375 I will shoot a bit more, as you can sure shoot the big ones too much. My practice is shoot often, but not a lot of rounds at a time and sharpen up with .22's and deer and varmint calibers.

I like to point and dry fire my rifles regularly which I know works to become familiar with them .
ozhunter

This is the reason that all of my big bores have a 30/06 brother. I have them set up exactly the same as their bigger brothers. IE 3 FN mausers in 06, 9.3x62, and 458wm with the same stocks, sights, optics (well close the 06 and 9.3 have 2-7 leup and the 458 is 2.5 fixed). This way I can incremently move up in recoil and have the same feel with all of them. The savings in shooting the 06 vs the 458 (about 30 rounds of each in a session) doesn't take long to offset the price, and whichever one I pick up it feels like an old friend. Now if I can figure out how to put 22rf in a commercial mauser it will be complete.

When I first got my 416 Rigby (July 2000) I put approx 450 rounds through it prior to my '01 buffalo hunt in Zim. Now I shoot it maybe 75-100 rounds prior to a hunt. 8-10 rounds per session all off sticks, targets at 100yds. My other rifles maybe the same, although, some of my others are showing a little barrel wear so I am backing off. May be time to get a decent 22 for practice.

........Dogleg;; I was thinking about the same thing this morning,,,, I was on Kreigoffs web site looking at the safari doubles and the Classic Standard.....As I have never had a double I would need to do a tremendous ammount of practice with a double system .....Their 500/416 with a set of 308 win barrels would be pretty ideal......Right now our shooting range has about 8 feet of snow on it and we are very limited on driveing so my shooting latley has fallen off quite a bit......I make it a point to always keep plenty of ammo in the truck and I always seem to have a rifle with me ......I guess if a person was a gillion air they could shoot factory ammo but that just seems wrong........Looseing rigby brass in the snow or grass was the reason I chose the 416 Rem......And why the 500 A-Sq. is more interesting to me than the 505 or Jeffries...ECT........My shooting has been a bit off this year but even at the high point you have me beat.........But then I live in town currently..........I,m going to try the picture target and a chargeing target ....The 375 has good cheap bullets , as does most other calibers execpt for the 416......I use the berries plated 350 gr round shoulder bullet for blasting..........muzzel brakes and moly coated bullets help my stocks barrels and shoulder ,neck,back........I do agree with 500gr,,about the flinch .. I have and have seen guys shoot themselves into a flinch ...... In my 9.3x62 I use 16 gr of Unique and a 270 gr Moly coated Speer soft point bullet for plinking ...It hits about 1 foot low @ 100 yrds and is great fun.......I used a simular load in my 375with 270 gr moly coated Hornady bullets...........Keep at er and have fun ...........I completely agree with Nitro X about hunting with safari rifles......Most of my hunting with my rifles is for deer lately............

Dogleg,

You must be so far beyond diminishing returns it is ridiculous, relative to me anyway.

I doubt I shoot much more than 20 rounds before any DG safari, for a couple rifles combined, much less hundreds.

But then I am one that has never seen the point to shooting hundreds of rounds. If the rifle is sighted-in, what is the point?

I shoot mostly just for practice off-hand and to see of the rifle is indeed still sighted-in.

Someone on one post elsewhere stated that any rifle used for DG should be shot a minimum of 400? times. Why, I have no idea.

A thousand rounds? Yikes!!

I agree with will about the diminishing returns. I used to shoot 10-15 shots per day with my .458 Lott using full-house, 500 grain loads. When I'd go back to my .375, I noticed that not only had I developed a flinch, I had to fight a desire to close my eyes, turn my head, and a wish to run away from the line, leaving the rifle to fire itself!

I now try to never fire over six rounds of the Lott. No more than three off the bench to check zero, (hopefully only one) and three more off the sticks for practice. Occasionally, I'll throw in a few open sight, offhand shots at 50 yards, working the bolt quickly.

I usually shott my 416s at least 100 times a day with reduced loads.Thats over a 7 am to 7 pm kinda shooting day.I use 76 grs of reloader 15 with a 350 gr speer bullet.I get alot of people to shoot 416s that would never shoot them also.I usually shoot about 20 full loads also.I also see how fast I can shoot 4 rounds of of my gun off hand and see how good I can shoot.I have shot about 2500 or so rounds of of my 4`16s.I also shoot my 338 win mags a bunch on these days.I have my ways of shooting so much.First I never shoot my 416s from the regular bench position.I do it standing off of the bench with a milk crate and a 60 pound bull bag.I have sorbithane recoil pads on my guns and I use two of the thickest pas pads.Iyts not bad like 12 ga heavy duck loads.Its more a big push too.I learned to shoot big guns from reading Elmer Keith books.I learned how to let the recoil roll your body smoothly.I have to watch not wearing out my rifles so I take a bunch of my 416s and 338s .That way I dont get them too hot or wear them too much.I reload on my dillion 550 and have 8000 pcs of 416 brass and usually keep a few thousand 416 bullets.It cuts the cost to about $25 a box or less with new brass.I just shoot the 416 rem mag for all of my big stuff.I play with my 338-378s too but I have to hold back on them so i dont shoot out the barrels.I carry 22s also to even out the time and inprove my shooting skills.I love shooting my 338s and 416s .Its alot of fun I have turned alot of people on to big bores with these reduced loads and yes they bought 416s and 338s .

Will,

Interesting post, who would have thunk it?

I shoot once a week for at least a few months before a safari, of course I shoot skeet one a week all summer before the bird seasons open up in Sept.

I guess partly for fun but more importantly (for me anyway) to practice. I find I'm much more confident (and shoot better) with practice.

Brett

I shot 70 rounds through my .416 in a wekk before a trip a few years back (I received the rifle a bit late) and everything went just fine.

So I figured that the recoil-flinch issue was a bunch of baloney and started shooting it a lot after the trip.

Took me about two months to develop a flinch.

Now I do most of my practise with the 6.5x55 and 9.3x62 and only shoot the .416 when I feel I need the practise.

I'm like Will I shoot mine but not excessively. More interested in the gun being zero'd in. When shooting my 416 it is with a led sled off the bags. Have learned to roll with the big calibers when shooting off the sticks but still keep the number of shots limited. After over 40 years of shooting,if it hits the target I'll be fine. Got past the excitement stage years ago.

To shoot that much in Canada tells me you spend all your other time getting permits to transport your guns to the range.

quote:

To shoot that much in Canada tells me you spend all your other time getting permits to transport your guns to the range.

And don't forget delivering the permit applications by sled dog, and keeping our igloos from getting drifted in.....

FYI...in case you weren't kidding (tough to tell from a post with no smilies...looks like a dig to me), it might interest you to know that only handguns (ie. restricted weapons) require permits to transport, and you only need to get one permit every three years which covers all ranges in Canada and all the handguns you own. Don't get me wrong..that still totally sucks and I am against it 150%, but it isn't as onerous as some make it out to be. I make a point of clarifying that when the opportunity arises because I don't want other Canadians to shy away from handgun ownership. The more of us that own one, the harder it will be to take them away.

Canuck

Pegleg,
I don't know what you're talking about. We don't need permits to take our rifles or shotguns anywhere,anytime and never have. Handguns are different, but even then a blanket Authorization to transport can cover all trips to any range that a shooter has access to as a member, guest or competitor.
I don't know what country you are thinking about, but it's not Canada.
Dogleg

I have to agree with Will on this one. I spend as much time with my big guns as is needed to make sure they are reliable. My practice is done with a man sized 22 rimfire at swingers set at various distances using sticks. I have found that the 22 develops good trigger control without building a flinch. If I shot a thousand rounds of 416 in that short a period of time, I would have some concerns about eye damage not to mention getting punchy. I asked my eye doctor about big bores one time and he felt as you get older they represented a risk when overdone.

Driftwood,

I agree with the idea of shooting just enough to be comfortable with the rifle/load.

RE: "Got past the excitement stage years ago"
I hope I NEVER get to that point.

Canuck and Dogleg- Sorry for the error. No dig intended. It has been a few years since I've gotten to talk to my Canadian friends that use to come down to Tacoma and shoot benchrest. The laws have gotten so bad that they just gave it up and we don't see them anymore. We miss there company and friendship since they quit comming down to compete. The stories they told were a little different than you guys have explained. They said you had to make an appointment to apply for a trip permit and if you missed that appointment you would be set back another month or two. They also said that you had to put times of transport on the permit and if you fell outside those times and were caught you would loose your gun. This all could have changed by now but stories like that and the fact that the ammo couldn't be in the same room etc. all bring chills to me. It got to the point that they needed a personal invitation to come shoot before they could come accross the boarder and when the boarder patrol started declining our match flyer as an invitation they quit.We miss our Canadian friends and wish thay could once again come down for some shooting fun. All were great guys and they could also shoot some damn fine groups. I think we all strive for the same freedom.
Dogleg- I'm pretty sure your statement about not needing a permit to take your gun anywhere anytime is BS. Maybe you mean anywhere in Canada. If not then Come on down and shoot with us then. WE would welcome you with joy and friendship.

I thought the 350rds I shot the year before I went to Moz. for my first buffalo hunt was alot! I am going to the Caprivi in 08 & will shoot about the same number between now & then. I need to shoot more from the sticks this time.

Pegleg,
Of course I meant in within Canada, but I'm sure you knew that. Suffice it to say that I don't need anything to take my long guns anyplace I want within my country, contrary to your impression. Nor does our government restrict us in taking legally owned guns out of the country. The reason that Canadians aren't going down to the States with their firearms much anymore is because of your own laws. Just try to fly a rifle in checked luggage over the States as a non-resident, even if it is checked straight through. It's no wonder why most go around.
Dogleg

Will,
I was a little suprised at the number you offered, I would have guessed somewhat more. Be that as it may, I'm sure that you are far closer to normal than myself. When I posted this, it was with the idea that very few shots are actually fired out of the bigger guns. It is not suprising that those that like to shoot a lot would jump on the opportunity to mention it. Nor is it unexpected that those that don't would remain silent. High volume rifle shooters of anything bigger than varmint calibers are a pretty rare bunch.
On a brighter note, I did get out today for 33 rounds of bigger stuff, and a bit of load development work on a .308 Anschutz 1574 as well. It was a balmy -14 C, and of course I had the range to myself. Again.
Dogleg

When I first got my Dakota 375 H&H back in 2000 I put 200-250 down the pipe to get used to the gun, and 100 before my next safari the next year. Since then I have taken it out for 10 rounds before one trip(it was too hot too shoot and the barrel wouldnt cool down) and for other trips I didnt bother to shoot it at all, I havent cleaned it since 2000 just a few drops of oil to keep the bolt cyclying smooth.

Not bragging but I have been shooting for so many years because I started young and was a natural, that after I was used to the gun-I dont need to practice anymore for hunting accuracy, now for competive shooting that requires alot more accuracy then yes I would have to practice. When I go to the range before the hunt begins I fire 2 shots one from each gun I bring, its on video, I did take a gun once I wasnt familiar with and that was a mistake because I did miss with it-hunting, the muzzle break made me flinch because of the noise.

quote:

The stories they told were a little different than you guys have explained. They said you had to make an appointment to apply for a trip permit and if you missed that appointment you would be set back another month or two. They also said that you had to put times of transport on the permit and if you fell outside those times and were caught you would loose your gun. This all could have changed by now but stories like that and the fact that the ammo couldn't be in the same room etc. all bring chills to me. It got to the point that they needed a personal invitation to come shoot before they could come accross the boarder and when the boarder patrol started declining our match flyer as an invitation they quit

Hey Pegleg,

That's not the norm in my experience...could be true though I guess. Would depend on the province they are in to a certain extent. That is WAY stricter enforcement of authorizations to transport than I have ever seen.

The invitations are technically required, but thats the first I have ever heard of a flyer not being sufficient. And it seldom gets checked (the Authorization to Transport is usually multi-year, multi-gun with no limit on authorized ranges in Canada or the US....and the permitted times are usually 24/7).

As Dogleg mentions above, BY FAR the biggest deterrent to shooting in the US is the US gun laws, especially since 9/11. Getting a BATF Form 6 permit is a ROYAL pain in the arse.

quote:

I think we all strive for the same freedom.

That is for sure!

Cheers
Canuck

quote:

quote:
I think we all strive for the same freedom.

I'm sure we can all agree on that! I got out three days in a row the first taking my normal 30 or so shots with the .416 on the first two days. Today I took a different tack, and only took 8 offhand shots with it, a dozen each with the 375 and .308,a couple boxes of .223, about a hundred 38s in 2 different .357 revolvers and a hundred .22 rimfires in a Ruger Mark11. To a certain extent shooting is shooting, and perhaps I don't need to subject my nervous to as much pounding as I've been doing.On the other hand shooting is still fun!