(posted here and in Big Bores)
I had previously heard of Sir Samuel Baker�s famous 2-bore, "baby".

I am reading the second of two books about this man and his adventures when he began to refer to the rifle.

It was a single shot rifle firing an 8oz bullet backed by 12 drachems (drams?) of powder.
Nothing I didn't know so far......then he wrote that the shells he fired out of them were exploding shells. Damn, 8oz of lead was bad enough but to have the ball explode, that had to hurt. (by the way one elephant took such a ball in the lungs and still ran over 100 yards)

Questions;
1. Was this projectile basically a grenade (iron ball with a fuse detonator) or was it detonated by percussion and,

2. How much was the powder charge of the explosive?

Of interest;
I also read where he said an African Elephant couldn�t reliably be brought down by a frontal brain shot, so much for always believing someone just because they have �been there and done that�. The book did not illustrate where he shot this particular elephant but from his description all three rounds (from a #10 bore I believe) struck within a hands breadth of each other in the forehead. It sounds like he shot a few inches high.


Last point, I really enjoyed his narration of his Arab companions (three men) attacking and killing Elephants with swords and harpooning bull hippo�s in the water without a boat. That�s a little more �sport� than I think I would enjoy.

If anyone can answer the above questions I would appreciate it.

Hi .44

Projectiles were percussion initiated. Could come in two forms. Instant or delay. In 8 bore, 50grns of powder and a fulminate/chlorate cap ensured dettonation. In the delay there was a short solid BP fuse to give a delay of half a second or so to ensure maximum penetration.

WW greener mentions these explosive shells were available up into the cartrige erra but generally faded out when breechloaders came in. The one in my collection is an 8 bore conical. Rifle needs to be especially rifled to stabilise such a long projectile. In 8 bore the standard 1750grn colical is haf an inch shorter than the shell (which only weighs 1400grns)

Also, from last years PH proficiency exams in Zimbabwe, I would concur with baker. We were trying 600grn .458 di lead bullets at between 1700 &2000 fps from .458 Wins and Lotts. These bullets had a thin copper jacket to prevent leading and retard disintergration, but even so they were worn away by the bone to such an extent that they failed to penetrate adequately. A muzzel loader fireing a bullet of lower SD at lower velocities doesn't really have a hope.

Oh, did I just piss on the batteries of a few people who believe a .45-70 lever gun using hard cast bullets is an all rounder for dangerous game?

I am sure the argument about the 45-70 is not going to go away very soon.

A few weeks ago, we had Roy Vincent here on his annual visit to us - he spends most of his time down in the basement, making sure he and his son Alan put a good dent into our ammo supplies

Anyway, we are planning to put the theory of velocity versus penetration to sleep once and for all - at least to satisfy ourselves, not necessarily anyone else.

We are going to make bullets out of copper, on a lathe, the same shape and weight, in different calibers - for the 9.3, 375, 416, 404, 458, 585, 600 and 700.

We will shoot them at the lowest practical velocity - we have not decided on that yet; and increase the velocity, and see how they penetrate.

I think I will leave the larger calibers for Roy to shoot. He is the only one I know who is happy to shoot a 700 off the bench.

Saeed,

How about some short video of those shots and the penetration..


Mike

If someone else shoots, I will be happy to video them.

If I shoot, everyone leaves the room.

It all started when I was trying to shoot a 577 NE Double. There was a very loud CLICK as I pressed the trigger.

The owner of that rifle, and Walter, were stepping over each other to leave the room before the rifle goes off.

They managed to run upstairs and out of the whole house. And I had to go after them to get them back.

We discovered that the firing pin was broken.

I can tell you, it was not much fun trying to hold an 18 pound rifle and keept pointing down range - just in case this was a hangfire.

Hi Saeed

Did notice that you shoot a very fair sized cannon when in the bush though!!! Noticed you shot it very well. Roy gets away with it because he is the same elsatic build as I was (before an AK bullet trashed my right shoulder)

I will be VERY interested in your results, for although Roy does load everything balls-to-the-wall he surely does know his stuff!