I know now from reading 505ED's post that in South Africa there are no minimum caliber requirements, just common sense. With my little CZ, I can easily get 2400 fps+ with a 286 Woodleigh PP/Solid. However, some of the other African countries require a .375 minimum or 5300+ joules. What I am wondering, how strictly is this .375 minimum enforced?

P.S. Elephants are not on the menu. Just buff and plains game. I like my little gun and I want to be able to use it.

Tolerance will vary from country to country and outfitter to outfitter, so ask first.

I hunted have buffalo with the 9.3x74 and, I also shot a Cape buffalo with a .30-06 in the heart, that my brother had asked me to double up with him on. He had only hit in the knee with a .416, but I fired immediately as agreed, and it went maybe 100 yards before piling up...

The 9.3 will work ok, however a caliber with a .4 in front of it will always be a better option.

I don't want to get anything started. I love my 416, and my 450#2, but for what you are hunting. Follow the rules, take a 375. You will never regret it.

Bob

Dave, I have never tried to find out. I know that it happens, though. I have heard many first hand stories.

But I have never used the legal minimum, except on lion and leopard, where the legal minimum is really always way more than enough.

Simple for me on the big, thick-skinned game: As long as the hunter can handle it, he's better to be overgunned than undergunned. I have found that I can handle it, so I am always overgunned.

The 9.3 on buffalo has been discussed in depth. ganyana is an expert on this!

Check old history.

Damn Dave,

You've got a proper DG rifle now in that double 500NE! Why take a rat gun? BTW, when are you going and with whom?

Every Province in South Africa has its own sets of Legislation. KwaZulu-Natal, the minimum is .375.

quote:

Originally posted by EXPRESS:
Tolerance will vary from country to country and outfitter to outfitter, so ask first.

I hunted have buffalo with the 9.3x74 and, I also shot a Cape buffalo with a .30-06 in the heart, that my brother had asked me to double up with him on. He had only hit in the knee with a .416, but I fired immediately as agreed, and it went maybe 100 yards before piling up...

The 9.3 will work ok, however a caliber with a .4 in front of it will always be a better option.

The lesson in the story is: A .416 kills buffalo very effectively. Even one shot in the knee just goes about 100 yards!

The lesson of another story is "Use the little gun that you know and love, [even if it's "only" a .30-06 or a 9.3X74R] as bullet placement means everything!

Be glad that the some time ago proposed Minimum Norms and Standards does not yet apply in South Africa. What a lot of crap!

Enjoy the hunt Butch!

Wrong!

As far as I am aware we do have legal minimums.

To complicate matters further I recall that it differed slightly from province to province so I can't recall if the 9.3x62 sufficed anywhere, although the 375 H&H does as I remember. I'm no expert, but I do suggest that you look into this again.

I know from my Northern Cape hunting licences that there are even minimum requirements for plains game... I have one here:

"Special Conditions for the hunting Licence:
....

3. A .270 caliber is the minimum caliber firearm to be used for the hunting of bigger game species such as Eland, Kudu, Blue Wildebeest, Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest and Waterbuck.

4. A .375 caliber is the minimum caliber for a firearm to be used for the hunting of dangerous game species such as Elephant, Rhinoceros, Buffalo, Lion and Leopard."

Now we can argue about this and point out obvious BS and shortcomings, like a giraffe is not mentioned and a red hartebeest is easy to kill with a 6.5 etc. etc. but the reality is that there are minimums and I'd not take the opinion of those who said that their aren't as what I base my actions on.

Many years ago I recall mention of energy levels for some provinces, but I'm really not sure and I know that is the case in Namibia and may be confusing them.

I think that many outfitters will happily allow you to shoot a lighter rifle that you are comfortable with rather than a cannon you are not accurate with.
A 30-06 is enough for Buff with a premium mono mental soft, its really just the outfitter who will police this in SA so speak with them first.

You'll find most if not all of the Provincial game acts at www.phasa.co.za

I am not too sure if this has been signed into law, but one can use this as a guide.

http://faolex.fao.org/docs/pdf/saf104522.pdf

This is or will be national and supercedes provincial.

Doug

I might be wrong but as I understand it the norms & standards (thankfully) ain't gonna happen any time soon.

IIRC that stuff up of a POS doesn't or at least didn't even recognise a shotgun is used for bird shooting!

The norms and standards took on several draft forms over the years. The one as peculiar as the next. I understand the idea and that is fine and well, but the insight, knowledge and experience is lacking. One was based on bore diameter, the other on bullet weight.

It is still useful for licence applications here and motivating why you need many firearms as these were proposed legislation.

I can't op en the link so I'm not sure which one that is, but the latest one was based on bullet weight as I recall.

It works for me but if it'll help, the date on the document is 27th May 2011

Guys, thanks for all your input. If I do go on a trip, it would probably be to South Africa with Ernest Spear of Spear Safaris. I had a friend who hunted with Ernest and had a great time. He promised to get me close to a buffalo and if I go, I can bring my sons along. One will hunt plains game and the other will be our video guy. Will make a decision on rifles later but I think the 9,3 will be available. I have a lot of encouragement to take the .416 Rigby though. Again, thanks.

I've seen two buffalos shot within 5 minutes of each other. One with a 300 RUM, the other one with a 375 HH.

The first one was a one shot kill.

The second one took 5 rounds.

Was that said before? Anyway... shot placement matters. Caliber matters MUCH less.

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
I am not too sure if this has been signed into law, but one can use this as a guide.

http://faolex.fao.org/docs/pdf/saf104522.pdf

This is or will be national and supercedes provincial.

I stand to be corrected, but once published in the Government Gazette it becomes law.

This norms and standards was published in the Government Gazette dated 27 May 2011.

I have a vague suspicion that the Minister has yet to find a pen and sign the damn thing.
Another lost pen is that of DEAET's MEC of The East Cape's 2013 "Hunting Proclamation." It is now May.
Please Dear Lord, bless us in South Africa.

Okay! Just to prove what lying bastards our politicians are, consider the following;
I have just received a PDF file containing the Provincial Gazette with the 2013 Hunting Proclamation, Vol 20 No 2949, dated 6 May 2013.
The MEC for Economic Development, Environmental Affairs and Tourism, M Jonas signed it above a hand written date, 20.12.2012

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
Okay! Just to prove what lying bastards our politicians are, consider the following;
I have just received a PDF file containing the Provincial Gazette with the 2013 Hunting Proclamation, Vol 20 No 2949, dated 6 May 2013.
The MEC for Economic Development, Environmental Affairs and Tourism, M Jonas signed it above a hand written date, 20.12.2012

You can't ever trust any politician and that goes 100 fold for an African politician!

Dave would be nice to say each of my listed rifles have taken Dangerous Game..

Mike