http://www.tribune242.com/news...N_ks_Mo8YitJo6MGcqt8


don’t be a illegal poacher

Mike

The Lacey Act presents liberals with a real dilemma. On the one hand, sounds like conservation -- all good -- on the other, makes the U.S. the policeman of the World (major league bad per liberals), enforcing all the wildlife laws of every country in the world.

They kinda have to choose at some point.

Oh, I guess they did. They chose Biden. Can he remember all of the world's laws? I doubt if he can remember which of his dogs bit someone last.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
The Lacey Act presents liberals with a real dilemma. On the one hand, sounds like conservation -- all good -- on the other, makes the U.S. the policeman of the World (major league bad per liberals), enforcing all the wildlife laws of every country in the world.

They kinda have to choose at some point.

Oh, I guess they did. They chose Biden. Can he remember all of the world's laws? I doubt if he can remember which of his dogs bit someone last.

No one appointed the US as the policeman of the world.

They did it themselves.

To the detriment of everyone involved.

Now, when you have organizations like SCI turn a blind eye to all the shenanigan's of their members, just so they can get themselves in one of their stupid circles, what do you expect?

USFWS ranks below the CIA and FBI, and above the IRS, as the most corrupt agency in the U.S. Government. Their law enforcement mission is a zero-tolerance approach to administering their regulations, some of which are not even based on laws. Every scalp that they take, no matter how innocent or accidental the offense may be, is used to increase their budget and their power. I do NOT condone poaching in any manner, but by the time the Florida restaurant owner gets done with this case he will have lost, donated, or spent, a half million dollars. That hardly seems justifiable for 500 lbs. of fish.

So what does this have to do with African hunting? Put it in the fishing section...

The Lacey Act has everything to do with African hunting and everyone who hunts abroad should know of its ramifications.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
The Lacey Act has everything to do with African hunting and everyone who hunts abroad should know of its ramifications.

100%

One day it will likely be used to stop us from hunting Africa.

Only if you bring stuff home.....

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Only if you bring stuff home.....

Not necessarily. When I was running the Lion Conservation Task Force working on stopping the up list of the lion...our intel found legal plans using the ESA and the LA in conjunction to prosecute hunters for the act...even when legal in country of the act.

While the Lacey Act has only been invoked historically when import has been made...that act is not prerequisite.

Everyone should read the Lacey Act sometime...it power can be quite broad.

I know about the Lacey Act... the article was about a guy fishing in the Bahamas. Illegally caught reef fish, brought 500 pounds back. Got nailed, cost a lot of money. Don't know what that article has to do with African hunting unless you make a big leap, but knock yourself out.

The article has fuck all to do with African hunting. But it is an example of what USFWS can prosecute using the Lacey Act as a base. These guys were commercial poachers and got what they deserved.....

I know individuals who have fallen victims to the Lacey Act.

So it IS relevant here

100% on both, Saeed!

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
http://www.tribune242.com/news...N_ks_Mo8YitJo6MGcqt8


don’t be a illegal poacher

Mike

Here is the deal.

Fishing the Cay Sal Bank (Bahamian waters) is virtually impossible. To fish it legally requires a run of over one hundred miles to the nearest customs office. Then back. It is relatively a short run from the Florida Keys directly.

Cay Sal has been under close scrutiny since the 1970's as a drop off point for drugs. Interdiction watches these waters daily.

Only a complete moron could think they could run, rape and return.

You just don't do it.

Jeff

Who in the hell is going out and keeping/bringing home EIGHT TIMES the legal limit of fish to begin with?

If the guy was 1 fish over, that could just be a mistake and should be a warning. Eight times the limit??? Dude... you are raping the resource and:

You shouldn't be able to get a fishing license anywhere in the US for five years.
You should have community service such as taking 100 different foster kids fishing during that 5 years.
Probably a good Singapore-style "caning" is not a horrible idea while we're at it, because you're just a complete douche.

It's REALLY hard to feel the least bit sorry for this jerk. He is, in fact, worse than a jerk. He is a crook, and he got off light, IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
It's REALLY hard to feel the least bit sorry for this jerk. He is, in fact, worse than a jerk. He is a crook, and he got off light, IMHO.

+1

The most bizarre Lacey Act violation I’ve seen happened to a buddy of mine from Iowa. He lives in prime big buck country, and being a local, has permission to look for shed antlers on dozens of prime farms. As a hobby, he would take shed antlers with exceptional main beams and graft extremely long antler points onto them using plastic wood. With a little sanding and staining, the Frankenstein like antlers looked like legitimate Boone & Crockett 200” racks. Where he ran afoul of the Lacey Act was selling the antlers to an out of state guy. That guy in turn tried to enter the rack into B&C. When the rack was X-Rayed the gig was up- Interstate Fraud involving a game animal. My buddy was sentenced to 8 months in Federal Prison and being a convicted felon, can no longer own firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by Bud Meadows:
The most bizarre Lacey Act violation I’ve seen happened to a buddy of mine from Iowa. He lives in prime big buck country, and being a local, has permission to look for shed antlers on dozens of prime farms. As a hobby, he would take shed antlers with exceptional main beams and graft extremely long antler points onto them using plastic wood. With a little sanding and staining, the Frankenstein like antlers looked like legitimate Boone & Crockett 200” racks. Where he ran afoul of the Lacey Act was selling the antlers to an out of state guy. That guy in turn tried to enter the rack into B&C. When the rack was X-Rayed the gig was up- Interstate Fraud involving a game animal. My buddy was sentenced to 8 months in Federal Prison and being a convicted felon, can no longer own firearms.

That seems WAY heavy-handed to me.

Gibson Guitars got nailed because of some type of wood they imported. It's a crazy damn law, like an octopus.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-w...ling-wildlife-skulls



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Friday, May 28, 2021
Quebec Woman Arrested, Charged With Selling And Smuggling Wildlife Skulls
CONTACT: Barbara Burns
PHONE: (716) 843-5817
FAX #: (716) 551-3051

BUFFALO, N.Y.-U.S. Attorney James P. Kennedy, Jr. announced today that Vanessa Rondeau, 26, of Montreal, Quebec, was arrested and charged by criminal complaint with Lacey Act Trafficking, Lacey Act False Labeling, and smuggling. The charges carry a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Aaron J. Mango, who is handling the case, stated that according to the complaint, the defendant owns and operates a business called The Old Cavern Boutique in Montreal, which offers for sale a variety of unique curiosity and oddity items, many composed in whole or in part from wildlife. A review of The Old Cavern Boutique’s Facebook page revealed numerous wildlife items for sale, many of which are protected under Federal laws.

On August 29, 2019, Rondeau advertised a taxidermy mounted crow for sale through Facebook for $325. The advertisement included a photograph and instructions to “pm [private message] if interested.” On September 20, 2019, United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) Special Agent sent the defendant a Facebook private message, in a covert capacity, inquiring about the crow mount. The Special Agent stated that he resided in the United States and asked about the cost to have the crow mount shipped, and about any problems shipping “these things” to the United States because it might be a “protected species.” Rondeau replied that she has never had a problem and explained, “I label them as Art piece.”

On December 3, 2019, and again on December 28, 2019, Rondeau offered a polar bear skull for sale. The post included photographs listed an asking price of $750 dollars (in the first posting) and $799 (in the second posting). The post instructed interested buyers to “pm [private message] if interested.” On January 13, 2020, in a covert capacity, the USFWS Special Agent contacted the defendant and requested photos of any available polar bear skulls. Rondeau sent a photograph of a polar bear skull with a comment that it was her “Last one.” The defendant offered to sell the polar bear skull for $750, plus $30 for shipping to Buffalo, NY. After requesting and receiving additional photographs, the Special Agent agreed to buy the polar bear skull. The Special Agent received the polar bear skull on February 2, 2020.

On January 24, 2021, Rondeau posted an advertisement for another polar bear skull for sale for $699 on The Old Cavern Boutique Facebook page. The Special Agent again expressed interest in buying the polar bear skull, and the defendant agreed on the price of $685 for the skull, which included a $35 shipping fee. On February 11, 2021, the Special Agent received the second polar bear skull.

The defendant made an initial appearance in U.S. District Court in Vermont and was released on $50,000 cash bail. Rondeau will appear in the Western District of New York on June 15, 2021, at 11:30 a.m. before U.S. Magistrate Judge Michael J. Roemer.

The complaint is the result of an investigation by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, under the direction of Ryan Noel, Special Agent-in-Charge of the USFWS-Office of Law Enforcement North-Atlantic Appalachian Region. Additional assistance was provided by the Vermont Office of Homeland Security Investigations, and the Vermont Office of Customs and Border Protection.

The fact that a defendant has been charged with a crime is merely an accusation and the defendant is presumed innocent until and unless proven guilty.

# # # #

Topic(s):
Environment
Wildlife
Component(s):
USAO - New York, Western

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-w...ling-wildlife-skulls



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Friday, May 28, 2021
Quebec Woman Arrested, Charged With Selling And Smuggling Wildlife Skulls
CONTACT: Barbara Burns
PHONE: (716) 843-5817
FAX #: (716) 551-3051

BUFFALO, N.Y.-U.S. Attorney James P. Kennedy, Jr. announced today that Vanessa Rondeau, 26, of Montreal, Quebec, was arrested and charged by criminal complaint with Lacey Act Trafficking, Lacey Act False Labeling, and smuggling. The charges carry a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Aaron J. Mango, who is handling the case, stated that according to the complaint, the defendant owns and operates a business called The Old Cavern Boutique in Montreal, which offers for sale a variety of unique curiosity and oddity items, many composed in whole or in part from wildlife. A review of The Old Cavern Boutique’s Facebook page revealed numerous wildlife items for sale, many of which are protected under Federal laws.

On August 29, 2019, Rondeau advertised a taxidermy mounted crow for sale through Facebook for $325. The advertisement included a photograph and instructions to “pm [private message] if interested.” On September 20, 2019, United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) Special Agent sent the defendant a Facebook private message, in a covert capacity, inquiring about the crow mount. The Special Agent stated that he resided in the United States and asked about the cost to have the crow mount shipped, and about any problems shipping “these things” to the United States because it might be a “protected species.” Rondeau replied that she has never had a problem and explained, “I label them as Art piece.”

On December 3, 2019, and again on December 28, 2019, Rondeau offered a polar bear skull for sale. The post included photographs listed an asking price of $750 dollars (in the first posting) and $799 (in the second posting). The post instructed interested buyers to “pm [private message] if interested.” On January 13, 2020, in a covert capacity, the USFWS Special Agent contacted the defendant and requested photos of any available polar bear skulls. Rondeau sent a photograph of a polar bear skull with a comment that it was her “Last one.” The defendant offered to sell the polar bear skull for $750, plus $30 for shipping to Buffalo, NY. After requesting and receiving additional photographs, the Special Agent agreed to buy the polar bear skull. The Special Agent received the polar bear skull on February 2, 2020.

On January 24, 2021, Rondeau posted an advertisement for another polar bear skull for sale for $699 on The Old Cavern Boutique Facebook page. The Special Agent again expressed interest in buying the polar bear skull, and the defendant agreed on the price of $685 for the skull, which included a $35 shipping fee. On February 11, 2021, the Special Agent received the second polar bear skull.

The defendant made an initial appearance in U.S. District Court in Vermont and was released on $50,000 cash bail. Rondeau will appear in the Western District of New York on June 15, 2021, at 11:30 a.m. before U.S. Magistrate Judge Michael J. Roemer.

The complaint is the result of an investigation by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, under the direction of Ryan Noel, Special Agent-in-Charge of the USFWS-Office of Law Enforcement North-Atlantic Appalachian Region. Additional assistance was provided by the Vermont Office of Homeland Security Investigations, and the Vermont Office of Customs and Border Protection.

The fact that a defendant has been charged with a crime is merely an accusation and the defendant is presumed innocent until and unless proven guilty.

# # # #

Topic(s):
Environment
Wildlife
Component(s):
USAO - New York, Western

she might have issues in canada with the CITES part ...

Seems to me we have too many "jail house lawyers" aboard..most all laws meet with nay sayers, and most don't know shit from Shineola..The Lacy Act has been a great asset in stopping commercial poaching, and yes like any law it has its down side and people judge without facts to support, many seem to think the law is for everyone but themselves..

Ray,

I have no problems with anti-poaching laws and no problem with a country enforcing it's own laws. The problem I have with the Lacey Act is that the United States is enforcing other countries' laws, even when they are not exactly clear. An example, a hunter was prosecuted a while back who shot a moose from a helicopter at the direction of a Russian official to feed children at an orphanage. The official insisted he take the antlers. He was prosecuted. He should have said no, but it would have been rude.

Now let's talk about ambiguities. Tanzania has two official languages -- English and Swahili -- and the Game Regulations are published in both.
I've got news for you. There are ambiguities in there. Which version do you follow, the English or the Swahili?

I learned a long time ago, unless one is involved and knows all the details, one cannot make judgments on what your calling facts, and since I have no knowledge of the case your referring two I can only generalize based on my experience with certain laws and that includes the Lacy Act..and the internet rates right up there with the National Inquier..

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Ray,

I have no problems with anti-poaching laws and no problem with a country enforcing it's own laws. The problem I have with the Lacey Act is that the United States is enforcing other countries' laws, even when they are not exactly clear. An example, a hunter was prosecuted a while back who shot a moose from a helicopter at the direction of a Russian official to feed children at an orphanage. The official insisted he take the antlers. He was prosecuted. He should have said no, but it would have been rude.

Now let's talk about ambiguities. Tanzania has two official languages -- English and Swahili -- and the Game Regulations are published in both.
I've got news for you. There are ambiguities in there. Which version do you follow, the English or the Swahili?

That’s not quite how it was reported at the time. The shooter was Mike Simpson, past SCI President, accompaniment by Dan Duncan, a Texas billionaire. They were moose hunting in Kamchatka with no success. The Russian official was a game warden who the outfitter apparently bribed to arrange a chopper and accompany them on an outing. There was no orphanage involved and Simpson tried to import the trophy in apparent violation of the Lacey Act. He and Duncan were prosecuted in Federal Court. There was a big discussion here and Simpson was awarded the SCI Door Gunner award. They both got off with a slap on the wrist. Money talks.....

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Ray,

I have no problems with anti-poaching laws and no problem with a country enforcing it's own laws. The problem I have with the Lacey Act is that the United States is enforcing other countries' laws, even when they are not exactly clear. An example, a hunter was prosecuted a while back who shot a moose from a helicopter at the direction of a Russian official to feed children at an orphanage. The official insisted he take the antlers. He was prosecuted. He should have said no, but it would have been rude.

Now let's talk about ambiguities. Tanzania has two official languages -- English and Swahili -- and the Game Regulations are published in both.
I've got news for you. There are ambiguities in there. Which version do you follow, the English or the Swahili?

That’s not quite how it was reported at the time. The shooter was Mike Simpson, past SCI President, accompaniment by Dan Duncan, a Texas billionaire. They were moose hunting in Kamchatka with no success. The Russian official was a game warden who the outfitter apparently bribed to arrange a chopper and accompany them on an outing. There was no orphanage involved and Simpson tried to import the trophy in apparent violation of the Lacey Act. He and Duncan were prosecuted in Federal Court. There was a big discussion here and Simpson was awarded the SCI Door Gunner award. They both got off with a slap on the wrist. Money talks.....

I have read books, by professional hunters, who have stated that quite a number of high ranking SCI nitwits broke all sorts of laws to get their trophies.

It has been going on for years, that is one of the reasons I dislike all that SCI glorifies since they turned hunting into a stupid competition.

Saeed,

I agree. Hunting should only be a competition between the hunter and the animal.

My problem is the US trying to enforce other countries' laws as a matter of principal, and especially when there are ambiguities, like game laws published in two languages and both being "official." "In practice" they may be enforced the same in Tanzania, but I don't want some AUSA in Houston Texas deciding how it should be interpreted. I think that's just wrong.

So an American should be able to go to another country and shoot anything he wants, anyway he wants in contravention of that country’s laws, and import it? The only reason Simpson and Duncan got a pass was because Russia refused to send a game official to Texas to testify to the illegality of the hunt. Of course, the fact that Duncan did a lot of oil business couldn’t have had anything to do with that. Like I said, money talks and poachers walk... Ambiguities are one thing, blatant violations are another. You need to pick a better example than Simpson and Duncan to make your point.

jdollar,

Not my point at all. My point is: 1) who made us policeman for the world? 2) If the country where it happened doesn't choose to prosecute, who are we to decide to enforce their laws?

Ok jdollar, fair point. As I've said, Tanzanian law is in both of its two official languages, English and KiSwahili. You can never totally reconcile that. Plus the regulations are vague in either language. How far from a vehicle do you need to be. What is proximity of water. I've hunted where it's nearly impossible to shoot anything that's not in the proximity of water, depending on your definition of proximity.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
The Lacey Act has everything to do with African hunting and everyone who hunts abroad should know of its ramifications.

This is the hard truth for hunters, fisherman, and sportsmen of all types. Below is an article that Safari Specialty Importers and the NRA partnered on to educate hunters on how the Lacey Act can effect them.

Don’t Be an Unwitting Poacher
by Max Prasac - Tuesday, December 11, 2018



You are a responsible hunter. You practice with your chosen hunting firearm to a level of competence, you are a member of the NRA, you renew your hunting license every year and you take your craft seriously. You consider poaching reprehensible and wouldn’t be caught dead participating in an illegal hunt in any way imaginable. Then one day you book a dream hunt in South Africa. This is one you’ve been saving your pennies for and you’re heading over with a few of your buddies. When you get there your outfitter, being the good guy that he is, says he can save the group some money on shipping trophies. That’s good news to your ears as this is an expensive hunt, and any savings is a good thing. So, you and your friends hunt and at the end of your safari, your outfitter fills out only ONE hunting register (hunting license) in the name of only one hunter, and puts everyone’s animals on one registry. His promise to you is that by shipping all trophies in one box, to

one destination, you will save significantly on shipping charges. However, what he’s conveniently not telling you is that you will be violating the Lacey Act (a U.S. conservation law that prohibits the sale or trade of wildlife that has been illegally hunted, transported or sold).

Worldwide hunting laws require a license to hunt legally. If your outfitter completes the license in the name of only one hunter (for the claim of saving you money), the others in the group who have not hunted legally are, therefore, poaching by definition. Ignorance of the laws will only take your defense so far. The outfitter pockets the license money that is literally a part of every hunting package sold. But those without licenses aren’t the only ones committing a crime. The license holder signs a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Declaration for Importation or Exportation of Fish or Wildlife (Form 3-177) where he/she signs “under penalty of perjury that the information furnished is true and correct,” making him/her an accessory to poaching. No one walks away unscathed if caught, though you did not intentionally break the law. The mistake will come at a cost much greater than your supposed saving on shipping charges.

This is an epidemic in the hunting industry and very prevalent in South Africa in particular. To make matters worse, most U.S. brokers and taxidermists turn a blind eye to this all too common illegal practice and are blatantly assisting the hunter in breaking the Lacey Act, which is a felony. Unfortunately, much of the industry is complicit and some of the unintentional consequences are providing ammunition to the anti-hunting, animal rights extremist community. To them, hunter equals poacher, so why prove them right?
It’s too far to travel and too expensive to get caught in this web of illegal activity. Why ruin a great experience and the subsequent memories? Make sure that your license is actually your license at the close of your safari.

The effort to draw attention to this growing epidemic is being spearheaded by Robert Quartarone of Safari Specialty Importers, an outfit that deals only with the
disposition of your trophies and making sure they get to you efficiently and legally—and that you remain stress-free in the process. As a hunter, Robert actually has
skin in the game and wants to protect your hard-earned trophies and prevent you from falling into this trap. Safari Specialty Importers is advocating on behalf of the hunter for his or her protection. A pound of prevention beats a ton of legal fees.