Talk about bad timing, but I just developed a hankering for an AR. I would consider a Rock River, Colt, or Bushmaster, but for simplicity sake, I didn't want to ask the general question, "which starter AR should I purchase." Instead, I figured I would get a little more specific. So, if I were to purchase an entry-level AR for general plinking and shooting coyotes on occasion, which model would you suggest? Thanks, CC

Shootin' coyotes would require a longer barrel than a carbine, so you're looking at a 20-inch barrel right off. If you want to get into target shooting with an AR, then you might want to look at one with a 24-inch barrel. The barrels come with twists from 1:9 down to 1:7. I suggest going to a gunshop and picking up one of B'master's brochures or calling them at 1(800)998-7928 and having them send you one. It's very informative, depicting every model they make, to include lowers and uppers both assembled and stripped...

The AR is like the Chevy 350 of rifles. It CAN do everything well, but in different configurations. It all depends what you want to do with it. (That's why some people have several).

For plinking and Yotes I'd get a flattop, 1-8, 20" bbl with a free float fore end. It's also getting to the point where you can choose calibers... I'd stick with the .223 / 5.56

Thanks guys. I have looked at the flat top and thought that might be a good choice.

I recommend you handle the different configurations of AR's.

Barrel length, thickness, stock style etc.

These things make a great deal of difference in how the rifle handles.

My favorite for a general purpose AR is the 16" barrel with the retractable stock.

For dedicated varmint hunting you might want the regular 20" heavy barrel, or even a Varmint specific model.

However, I have taken several turkey with an AR 15 and 2 javellina, one at 200 and one at a little over 300 yards, with the 16" barreled AR.

Sorry Collins, I was typing fast, as I had to head out the door on an errand.

Bushmaster 15 R21, the lighest rifle out there, Inexpensive and ready to shoot. Total weight 5.5 lbs lbs with scope and 5-round mag. I purchased one for my 6 year old, and for extra $26.50 you can buy a youth stock which will shorten the rifle by 3 inches. I use light loads for him and its a real pleasure to shoot, using the Nikon 2-7x32 camo scope.

http://www.bushmaster.com/cata...rbon15_AZ-C15R21.asp

http://www.bushmaster.com/elec...s/C15%20R97S-R21.pdf

In my former Job I have seen several hundred Colt and a few hundred Rock River AR's shot with feww if any problems.

All of these guns were shot several hundred rounds each in my presence.

My Brother in Law has a S&W AR that so far has been 100%.

I have shot several of ther Colt AR's with the longer, skinny stainless barrel, do not remember the model number, ALL of them have been scary accurate.

Several Armalite AR's retro fitted with Les Bear barrels were very accurate from 100 to 600 yards, over a long period, I observed several thousand rounds fired, I fired a few of them myself.

CC there was a guy In the Classified Forum inquiring on what to ask for his Bushmaster V Match. Make him an offer. I have a Colt HBAR which is a sub 1" rifle at 100 yards and sub 2" at 200 yards (with scope). It is not for sale!
Peter

IMHO,

For a first Sport Utility style rifle for plinking and yote hunting I'd buy a Bushmaster 16" carbine with the adjustable (collapsable) stock, flat top and a free float BMAS handguard with rails at four positions. You can use a normal sight/handle, a pop up rear sight or any variation of optic.

I think you'll find that it's accurate enough for most things you'd shoot at in reasonable range. Buy some Magpul magazines and don't limit yourself to just 55gr fmj style ammo. Buy or reload some match or varmint hunting style ammo and be prepared for bolt gun style accuracy.

Good Shootin'

Bushmaster Preditor, 20" barrel comes w/ hogue grips, aluminum forend. great shooter!

I picked up a Bushy varminter, 24 in. chrome HV barrel. I traded here on AR to a gent to get it.

It is .223 rem caliber, shoots .532 in groups at 100 yards with 26 grains of Varget, WW brass, CCI 450 primers and Sierra 69 grain HPBT match bullets.

I also have a RRA, tactial entry, shoots sub MOA 100 yards, same load, open sights on this one at 100 yards, and has a better trigger pull than the Bushy.

DO NOT underestimate the BLACK RIFLE, these suckers are accurate.

Regards... PAH

quote:

DO NOT underestimate the BLACK RIFLE, these suckers are accurate.

Regards... PAH

How true! Even the sloppiest AR will shoot rings around a Mini-14.

This is the Bushmaster I got my son, its the 15 R21 model, 5 lbs with scope and magazine. A joy to handle and shoot.
For a little extra I got it painted.

quote:

However, I have taken several turkey with an AR 15 and 2 javelina, one at 200 and one at a little over 300 yards, with the 16" barreled AR.

I have a 1:8, 16-inch that will shred a one-liter soda bottle at 300 yards with damned near every pop. That's one MOA. Has a DPMS upper; I think they use either Shaw or Wilson barrels...

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
However, I have taken several turkey with an AR 15 and 2 javellina, one at 200 and one at a little over 300 yards, with the 16" barreled AR.

NE450,

Do you recall what ammunition were using on the javelina at 200 and 300 yds?

I have had good luck with 55 grain TBBC Federal Tactical, and more recently with the inexpensive but excellent 62 grain Federal Fusion.

I get about 2925 fps w the TBBC from my 16 inch barrel.

Andy

Andy, for edible game I like to use the solids.

Andy

It was several years ago,there was not near the selection that there is today.

It was factory Remington 55gr Soft Point.

The wife has shot quite a few turkeys with it as well.

Carolina, I have owned several Bushmasters including a Bullpup and a Carbon 15. I put scopes on both of these to test out the accuracy. Neither of them met my standards for hunting accuracy. The Carbon 15 is a wonderfully light gun and currently wears a red dot scope, but I would not use it for hunting.
Peter.

NE450,

I used the Remington Power Lokt HP for quite a few years.

They were an electrolytically plated jacket like the current Federal Fusion.

It was and still is a darn good 223 bullet.

Held together even at point blank range on ferral dogs.

Andy

Andy

I remember that bullet. The two Remington loads and the Winchester 55gr SP were just about the only factory loads when I started using the AR.

Now I use The Winchester 55gr Ballistic Silvertip quite a bit.

They shoot good out to 600 yards in a good barreled AR.

If I was interested mainly in out of the box scary accuracy, I'd buy the Bushmaster DCM model. It comes with a heavy stainless barrel, 1 in 8" twist, and an EXCELLENT trigger. Best of all, the barrel is NOT chrome lined, but very nicely lapped. They shoot like wizards right out of the carton with just about every bullet from 55 to 80 grains.

There are several "Distinguished Marksmen" in our club who bought and love them.

If I was going to own ONE AR-15 that would need to do a varity of task's from back yard benchrest to varmint hunting this probably would be my pick.



They have a great reputation for extreme accuracy and they're light enough to carry in the field if you want to hunt with it. You'll be swayed to get the 16" model because it looks cooler, but the guy who picks the 20" model makes a smarter choice.

Terry

M7 87 year old father ecently purchased a modular carbine from bushmaster.

http://www.bushmaster.com/cata...xm15_BCWVMF16FMC.asp

It still needed trigger work which he sent to accuracy speaks in AZ for one of theirs.

Much improved!

The removable metallic sights are excellent except the rear sight forces you to mount an ACOG too far forward. You have to creep up very close to the sight.

Ready to go otherwise.

Andy

quote:

the guy who picks the 20" model makes a smarter choice.

If a man picked a 24" barrel, would that be an even more intelligent choice? Just kidding. I have a 16" that will make a one-liter Mountain Dew bottle jump at 300 yards. I think I wrote about it way up in the thread. DPMS upper with a 1:8 barrel I think is made by E. R. Shaw. It's a .920-diameter, fluted, stainless. The gun is one of my favorites because it's light and accurate. I handload for it. Nothing special: 55-grain mil-surp bullets that have been weight-matched; full-prep brass with the same headstamp, such as LC01 or WCC94, et cetera; whatever small rifle primers I have laying around and 25.0 grains BL-C(2) or 27.5 grains of H380, to name just two loads. There are several more, but no need to go into them here. AR-platform guns are huge fun for not so much money. Get yours while you still can...

HA! I had that coming. I like the 20" barrel because it's a little easier on the ears than a 16"er without hearing protection, which I don't wear when hunting. You can usually get another 100 fps going from 16" to 20". From what I've read you don't get the same increase going from 20" to 24".

One great thing about AR's these day's is there are a lot of great ones to pick from.

Terry

I build a lot of AR's for guys, and have been around them pretty much full-time smithing on them for the last 15 years. Depending on how much weight you want to tote around, I think the sweetest shooting rendition is a 20" barrel, .936" gas block, 1.050 under the handguards. Flattop receiver, free-float tube, and you have a rifle that gently rocks on the bench and returns to the same point...that is if the gas port is the proper diameter (around .092") Mostly I use RRA parts as their quality is very good and the price is decent, all except the barrels. The wilson's and shaw's shoot pretty good most of the time, but I've re-barreled two Bushmaster varminters in the last year that had the chamber so far out of concentric the lands weren't even cut on one side of the throat, not to mention the bores look fairly poor under the borescope. For aftermarket barrels I've NEVER had a Lothar Walther that wouldn't shoot less than 1/2 MOA...they shoot incredibly well. I've used others, and now use a OEM button rifled stainless barrel that is hand-lapped before I get them. They shoot very well, maybe not as stellar as the Lothar Walther, but will as a rule do 1/2 MOA or close. If the 20" heavy barrel is too much, the 18" tube with the mid-length handguard is another nice one from RRA.

For a 'first' AR, one of the stock options from RRA with the two stage trigger would be what I look at. Most of the ones I build for the '1st timers' are the 20HB and they have all been very happy, and amazed at the acuraccy. If most of your time will be at the bench, and you're more of a precision rifle guy, the 24" heavy barrel uppers can really be amazing. As mentioned, a little less muzzle blast, and with the right barrel sub 1/2 MOA (or much better) accuracy. I recently built a $2000 custom 223 for a friend on a Stiller action, Rock barrel, Joel Russo stock and he topped it with a 6.5X50 Leu LR scope with the TMR reticle... He was going prairie dog shooting and at the last minute wanted an AR. I built him one that weekend, and two weeks later he headed out west. That bolt gun would shoot 5 shots into less than 1" at 300 yards, and the AR would do a hair over 2 at the same.... When that SOB came back, all he could talk about was how much FUN that AR was! He killed prairie dogs with the bolt gun up to 600 yards away, and he was more excited about the multiple hits he would get at 250 and under in a short time with that damnded AR...I just don't understand it!

They are a fun gun, and once you have one, you can think about different uppers, maybe a lightweight coyote gun, a 6.5 Grendel for deer and other critters, etc... I real nice coyote rig is an 18" .750 barrel, maybe .825 for the last 6 " under the handguard, Ace skeletal stock and two stage trigger with either the houge or ergo grip pistol grip... Light, fast, and accurate.

As you see above, there are a LOT of options out there. Think about what you want to use it for most of the time, and lean in that direction.