Interesting, I did not know that Bushmaster had gone belly up. What's the story? I had a Bushmaster Bullpup and then bought a Bushmaster Carbon 15 or whatever they call it. It is a wonderfully light AR15 type gun.
Peter.

Sold out to Remington I belive.
I would bet there was a no starting up another bussness clause for a while.

That time must of passed

Cerebrus Holdings ("Freedom Group"). Remington, DPMS, Marlin, Dakota, others, including Bushmaster.

That's a pretty respectable group of "holdings".
Peter.

It would be even more respectable if they hadn't shut the doors at Marlin (temporary, of course!)and lost all the highly skilled and trained employees that made the company a desirable asset.

I do not understand holding companies that think their ownership trumps a factory full of people who know what they are doing.

Why then did FN close winchester because the old unoin plants were wasteful and costly.

This way they get a new plant with better equipment and fresh stsrt.

Many firearms companies have left or are leaving the anti-gun Northeast. Massachusetts is the most anti-gun state hosting gun manufacturers so it is no surprise that they are losing these factories, the tax revenues and jobs that go with them.

George

p dog,

if I offered to give you a new house, about 50% larger than your old one, let you and your wife pick out the furnishings, and promised you no property taxes for twenty years would you move? If I said you could have a maid, and gardener at half the wages you were paying now, and let you take the move off of your taxes; would you do that?
If I said you could walk away from your old home, and take the maximum market value off of your taxes; would you?

The union issue is a scam, why would a company move over a cost that is tax deductible, and a miniscule percentage of the overhead?

Imagine that same company going to the utility companies and telling them they are not competitively priced with utility companies elsewhere? Or to the FedGuv and telling them taxes are too high?

The current economic times only provide one scapegoat, since politicians for the last forty years have embraced "Globalism". It is a nice, catchy phrase for turning the US into a third world country. Countries who export are the powers to be, not some country where healthcare and welfare are the two primary economies.

regards,

Rich

quote:

Countries who export are the powers to be, not some country where healthcare and welfare are the two primary economies.

Well IHS, perhaps you can explain to me where Germany fits into your economic scheme of things!
Having said that, I agree with you (I think!)It always amuses me that folks twist the story to fit their own preconceived views. Companies will move or stay based on their own best interests. So if a state (note= government) gives them economic incentives to move, guess what, they will move, so the local tax payers are paying for companies to play musical chairs, and no one says a word. Same thing with football teams. baseball teams and stadiums etc. etc.
Peter.

quote:

The union issue is a scam, why would a company move over a cost that is tax deductible, and a miniscule percentage of the overhead?

Rich, if you think wages and benefits are a miniscule part of overhead you've never read a 10-Q or 10-K of a publicly traded company. It's typically one of the largest expenses, an very often the largest expense period. Under no circumstances would I open a business in a Union state today. Idaho, on the other hand, would be a much better choice for a gun maker.

Antelope sniper, what is a "union state"?
Peter.

Non-right to work states. Places where the Unions are destroying jobs. Think Michigan.

The term "right to work" is a misnomer. A more accurate description would be "No right to work" ie. can be fired for no reason. Is that not so?
Peter.

Peter, it means right to work, without joining a Union. It also means fewer barrier to entry, and fewer disencentives to hire. Can't be fired if you don't have a job to begin with. In addition a job is not a right, it's not listed in the constitution. When you work for someone, they are paying you with their money. Just because a persons been hired, they don't have a "right" to that posiiton. Look what teachers Unions have done for education, and what they did to Winchester.

I like working for companies that use a Merit system. Good employees get raises, bad employees go away. It keeps a company lean and competative so that EVERYONE doesn't loose their job when it goes belly up, or moves to a non-union state.....or China.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
The term "right to work" is a misnomer. A more accurate description would be "No right to work" ie. can be fired for no reason. Is that not so?
Peter.

At my shop we can fire Union employees at will.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Why then did FN close winchester because the old unoin plants were wasteful and costly.

This way they get a new plant with better equipment and fresh stsrt.

From what I've heard, read, and understand Winchester basically put themselves out of business because the quality of their product rock bottom. In the last days they literally put out junk. That caused a huge lost in sells. FN killed two birds with one stone. Winchester was shut down and moved to FN's facilities and they got rid of the union up there in New England. In addition some Winchesters are now made in Japan, like the lever actions.

quote:

In addition some Winchesters are now made in Japan, like the lever actions.

I am not surprised although I have not heard that. Is this a problem? Not for me. I have a Smith and Wesson 1000S (Super Skeet) semiauto shotgun that was "made in Japan to S&W specs". Wonderful gun!
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:

quote:

In addition some Winchesters are now made in Japan, like the lever actions.

I am not surprised although I have not heard that. Is this a problem? Not for me. I have a Smith and Wesson 1000S (Super Skeet) semiauto shotgun that was "made in Japan to S&W specs". Wonderful gun!
Peter.

There was a recent write up that the "Model 94" is back in the line up. Changes were it's called a short rifle instead of a carbine even though it has a 20 inch barrel. The forearm wood has a steel cap on it and no barrel band. It has the tang safety. It's made in Japan and will continue to be. Here's the part that got me. Manufacture retail price is $1125 !!!!!!! They have to be nuts!!!!! You can buy a better bolt gun for way less then that price.

Let alone used ones with out the stuip tang safety.

You can acutally buy a collector pre 64 Model 94 cheaper now then the new Winchesters.

quote:

In the last days they literally put out junk.

I disagree. I have a late model LH Model 70 in .375 H&H that is a real dream. Two safaris and lots of dead animals and 1400-odd rounds through it and it still shoots MOA. I will never sell it. It's a great rifle and I bought in in December 2005.

The Union thing depends on the Union and the state in which it's allowed to operate in. Here in California we are a RTW state. But the people here are so damn sue happy it's still takes an act of congress to get fired if you work in the right shop. It's all out of fear of being sued for wrongful termination. Which they can sue for in a state that also says you can fire some one for any reason including no reason at all.

Our Aerospace machinists Union is the worst in the land, No new blood coming in. Older workers refusing to train new hires, and doing just enough to get by. All while making near six figures If you've been there over twenty years.
Bunch of lazy assed people.

quote:

no reason at all.

No reason at all is fireproof. The problem is that employers get trapped into giving a reason. That is where the problems start.
Peter.

The issue between Unions and Management is that, unlike Japan where it is that company against the world, here is is generally Union VS Management. Japanese companies are generally embarrassed to admit that they fire anybody. Employees are generally embarrassed not to be single out as an employee of the week more than a month or so.

They fail to understand that there has to be give and take. Share the good as well as the bad times. It does not help that an exec can get a seven-figure bonus for figuring out how to eliminate jobs or cut benefits.

My older brother is retiring from a Union Power Plant in the Midwest. They are offering him a full year's pay severance and insurance at cost until he is eligible for medicare/medicaid(?).
He hired in there in spring of 1970.

His replacement will come at about 55-percent of his base wage. That young man will not be buying a home and a new vehicle within five years of his hire date.

The biggest problem the company has, is trying to build power plants in China and shipping the electricity here from there.