quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
To a mile, a hot 7mm will work wonders with reduced recoil. A 7mm WSM, STW, RUM, or 7mm-338 Lapua all can do it, with a much cheaper cost.

You certainly don't need to spend $5000 if you want a gun to shoot a mile!

Well said!

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
At 1000 feet altitude, a 180 Berger will stay supersonic for the following-

2800 fps- 1500 yards (mild 7mm WSM)

2900 fps- 1600 yards (warm 7mm WSM)

3000 fps- 1700 yards (warm long barrel 7mm WSM, mild 7mm STW)

3100 fps- 1750 yards (warm 7mm STW)

3200 fps- 1850 yards (warm long barrel 7mm STW, 7mm RUM)

3250 fps- 1875 yards (Fairly stout 7mm RUM)

I have seen a 7mm RUM with 30" barrel shoot 180 Bergers over 3300 fps.

So a 7mm can do a mile more economically, and 200 grain Wildcats can do the job even better.

How dose the BC and SD compare to a 6.5mm?

The BC's for heavy 7mm bullets are better than 6.5mm bullet, and I would assume the sectional density is at least as high, although I really don't ever use it, so have no expertise. Shooting metal and paper, it doesn't really matter though. A 180 grain bullet going well over the speed of sound will kill game for sure though!

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
The BC's for heavy 7mm bullets are better than 6.5mm bullet, and I would assume the sectional density is at least as high, although I really don't ever use it, so have no expertise. Shooting metal and paper, it doesn't really matter though. A 180 grain bullet going well over the speed of sound will kill game for sure though!

LOL! Dead is dead. Cant get any deader then dead. LOL If it works for you, use it!

HINT: The reason that we taxpayers buy Accuracy International bolt guns in .338 Lapua for our snipers is NOT that AI was or is the low bidder.

For the money, I don't think you can beat the Savage factory rig in 338 Lapua. I was very impressed with one I shot the other day. It also has a wonderfully efficient brake - no "forward bounce" like an Armalite type and felt recoil in the sub-308 range.

That said, once you've established a reasonable and usable ballistic threshold in your choice of rifle and caliber, emphasis really has to shift heavily to optics and the shooter's abilities. Glass and practice is more important than cartridge choice.

My two cents, worth every penny

Mark

What you guy's think of a 416/505gibbs. I have a montana ph action comeing, and a reamer already made up. amd dies avaible from CH for a fair price. Feeding should not be a problem. I have gotten 1/2 moa out of 350 gr. 416 tsx in a 416 rem mag. Should be fairly cheep to shoot. Jamerson 505 case or the base for the chy tec.

JD

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
What you guy's think of a 416/505gibbs. I have a montana ph action comeing, and a reamer already made up. amd dies avaible from CH for a fair price. Feeding should not be a problem. I have gotten 1/2 moa out of 350 gr. 416 tsx in a 416 rem mag. Should be fairly cheep to shoot. Jamerson 505 case or the base for the chy tec.

JD

Sounds interesting.

Years ago I did a slightly shortened 423/505 (called it .425 EAE), it was not built for long distance work though.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
What you guy's think of a 416/505gibbs. I have a montana ph action comeing, and a reamer already made up. amd dies avaible from CH for a fair price. Feeding should not be a problem. I have gotten 1/2 moa out of 350 gr. 416 tsx in a 416 rem mag. Should be fairly cheep to shoot. Jamerson 505 case or the base for the chy tec.

JD

Sounds interesting.

Years ago I did a slightly shortened 423/505 (called it .425 EAE), it was not built for long distance work though.

With the Montana PH action comeing out with the 505 bolt face, and dies form CH, it should not be to tough of a undertaking. It will be a long barrel ( 28" or 30") bench rifle for long distance plinking. I am thinking 3200 fps with a 350 gr bullet.

If it proves accurate I will make a second barrel for it in a hunting taper at just 24" and load less powder for 2600 to 2800 fps.

JD

You can also use a 243 , 260 Rem or similar ounds, humans dont need so much energy as animals for the bullet to strike . The re is a strong interessest for rounds that can strike effectively at long ranges, 1500 meters + now . The most important for a sniper is the weight of the system he carries and weight of ammo he is using, plus its effective. Im helping a friend working out a such a round now, its not ready yet so cant or wont discuss details just right now .

But there was a us sniper squad in Iraq in 03 , that had to buy their own rifles in ordinary sporting goods store because the armouries had run out of rifles, so they bought . Rem VLS is .243, and they got into serious trouble which the range and energy saved them out of . they had all troubles against them, but they overcome it . fact to a flatshooting round and more ammo they carried .

so the world is for some specialists changing , and different niches is opening .

I would advise to save some dough for a Knight Armamanet Company PDA equipped range/elevation above sea level/cant/barometric pressure calculator.

http://www.knightarmco.com/bulletflight/index.htm

When you are shooting this far, you really need to take all environmental conditions into account.

I vote for the 375 but it is not a household word yet.

I would also look at the total weight of your rifle and that should help you decide what to buy. A .408 can (and should?) weigh as much as a 0.50 caliber. A 338 Lapua might be only 13-16 pounds or so. Or half the weight in other words.

Andy

Tyler,

it seems as if you are doing well in school, good to hear that.


About eight years ago I bought a Savage 112 BVSS in 7mm Remington Magnum. That is the solid bottom single shot with 26" fluted stainless barrel. George Vais lived here in SW Idaho for several years. He put one of his first design muzzle brakes on it for me. It works well.

Checked it for accuracy a little, then had my gunsmith run a 7STW reamer in it, using the variation by Baer (284 Baer). Turned case necks, just enough to uniform them and trimmed to length.

My load data with the Bergers, and Lost River bullets is within barrel velocity variance of what you posted.

I had a Leupold converted many years ago by Premier Reticle in Winchester, VA. It was a 6.5-20x40mm scope. Dick Thomas bumped it to 18-42X and added 1/16th moa dots 3, 6, and 9 moa high, and 3.6.9, and 12 moa low. No dot on the cross hair junction. It also has vertical lines 3 moa left and right of the vertical cross hair for windage assistance. With MOA dots, I can use it as a range finder, that is accurate within the capabilities of the rifle. I also have an early pair of Geovids.

By today's standards, this rig is "Vintage." But is is a pretty consistent sub-moa performer when I can dope the wind and mirage conditions.

I may have to get a rifle like yours put together this fall.

take care,

Rich

Anyone who thinks he's gonna consistently (the point isn't it?) shoot sub MOA at 2500+ yards with any of the crap discussed in this thread is smokin' the whacky weed! AND, if you think you can build something to do the job for less than $5k you might wanna check your meds. The glass alone will be twice that assuming you have access, the barrel will cost $3k+ and you'll need several to get the thing sorted, someone has to build a stable platform and that'll be more than $5k. Then you'll need to develop a cartridge/projo and load. The components will cost several thousand dollars easy. Then you'll need some quality software and something to run it on ..... and ... you'll need a LOOOOOT of time (years) to get it all dialed in and repeatable. Sniping things at that range is inefficient in terms of resources, that's why militaries use artillary, bombs, or rockets.

You forgot one thing. When everything will be ironed out and you start ejoying your wonder rifle, the barrel will be worn out at that time..

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
You forgot one thing. When everything will be ironed out and you start ejoying your wonder rifle, the barrel will be worn out at that time..

True Dat! (as will your wallet, eyes, & shoulder)

Tyler,

We all make choices when selecting appropriate medicine for the task at hand. Not always wise to blast other things. Sometimes they represent design considerations that make them more useful in the places they are used than your choices would be.

The .338 Norma Mag is a good example ... in the hands of an operator, the reduced recoil of that cartridge combined with its pretty decent trajectory make it a real killer (of things that can shoot back).

It works well in places you hope you never have to go.

This thread got awful hairy.

2500 yards is a long ways, almost a thousand yards further than I've shot (a mile), and 1500 yards further than my normal range.

I don't have personal expertise at 2500 yards, heck I wouldn't consider myself an expert at any range.

HOWEVER, I do consider myself fairly knowledgeable in the realm of ballistics and such, and one thing always holds true:

More case volume at the same pressure means more velocity.

When someone says their intended use is to shoot steel and 55 gallon drums, "338 Norma" doesn't come to mind.

Why?

If you're shooting steel and 55 gallon drums to a possible range of 2500 yards, do you need a short action? Not in my book. Do you need a lightweight rifle? It's not really practical for any caliber that can even handle 2000 yards. So for the same price of components you have a 338 Lapua throated long, and gain a lot of speed.

I also listed several other options...7mm specifically.

Alas, this is just my thought process, done as practically as possible, however others will always think differently.

Best of luck to the owner of this thread.

Tyler,

tell us about the rifle pictured. What is the URL?

thanks,

Rich

Rich, there is no URL, it's a custom build. However the smith is "straightshotgunsmithing.com"

Not the best web designer, but he makes good rifles!

The action is a Lawton 8500, or 7500 action, can't remember which one. Single shot, with right eject and left port. 40 MOA base on top.

Trigger is a Jewell that goes down to 1.5 ounces, I keep it at about half a pound since I also hunt with the gun.

Stock is a Mcree, I love it other than the cheekpiece gets cold, and the grip isn't the best. I fixed both of those last night actually! Put a new Ergo grip on it, and a Kick-Eez cheek pad on it.

Barrel is a 32" Broughton 5C, I would agree that this style rifling fouls less and gets more speed. It almost never copper fouls, even after 100 rounds a couple wet patches with a good copper solvent will have it clean. 3000 fps is easy to achieve with 300 grain bullets and no pressure.

Brake is CNC'ed by the maker, works pretty well. The whole gun is 22 lbs so there isn't much recoil.

At 1300 yards it has put lots of shots inside a 6 inch area, the gun comes with a half-moa guarantee, and it has no problem doing this. However, if there is any wind whatsoever I sure do. The further the range, the further my inadequacy at doping the wind is exaggerated!

Does anybody make a Sierra MK-style spitzer in .458 caliber? A 570-600gr design would be fun, and a 505 Gibbs necked down would be fearsome as far away as you could clearly define targets.
It would also give me something fun to build on my spare MRC PH action.

Rich

There are companies making lathe turned solids for 458, but I'm not sure what their application would be.