I'm looking to buy my first AR soon while I still can, but I don't know a whole lot about them. I did some looking over the weekend and pretty much decided on a Bushmaster A3, .223 with a 16" barrel. The one I'm looking at is online, has the LE mark and includes two 30 round clips for about $1,080 plus shipping and transfer fees. Does this seem reasonable?

I was also wondering what kind of accuracy to expect, average group size at 100 yards? I expect it to be better than an AK, but I've never shot one.

from the research ive done, rock river arms coyote is a better buy out of the box.... the trigger especially...

Some good ones:

Rock River

Noveske

Wilson

Les Baer

Sabre

JP Enterprises

Viking Tactics

LaRue Tactical

With a really good AR, you can 5 shots touching at 100 yards.

I have a Bushmaster and it is ok for a house gun. It would not be my choice for a survival rifle.

I have the RRA varmint version. I have trouble finding a load that WON'T group sum moa. The trigger is a dream. Customer service is fantastic.
A good place to ask questions about an AR
http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=3

I'll second, third or fourth the vote for Rock River Arms. I have the Varminter(24 inch stainless bull barrel with aluminium free floating handguards) my average groups for it are 3/8th of an inch at 100 yds. It can do better any day, some days I can. Love their Ntl. Match trigger.

Steve E.......

quote:

Originally posted by rowdyredneck:
I'm looking to buy my first AR soon while I still can, but I don't know a whole lot about them. I did some looking over the weekend and pretty much decided on a Bushmaster A3, .223 with a 16" barrel. The one I'm looking at is online, has the LE mark and includes two 30 round clips for about $1,080 plus shipping and transfer fees. Does this seem reasonable?

I was also wondering what kind of accuracy to expect, average group size at 100 yards? I expect it to be better than an AK, but I've never shot one.

Here's some info for those that are new to black rifle disease.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=342873

Build it yourself
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782

There are several good brands of AR's.
You can also buy complete upper assemblies and complete lower assemblies separately. Buying the upper and lower separately avoids the 11% excise tax on complete firearms

A couple brands that weren't listed are Stag and CMMG. The best budget outfit is Del Ton.

Some of us build AR's in the garage to save a buck and make configurations that are not available anywhere.

ZM

Better buy one soon if you can find one locally. Most gun shops can't even get any at most large distributors. Stag Arms are totally back ordered as most of the manufacturers are. Rock River are in the same situation. The election results have many running afraid that the assault weapons ban will be reinstated as it surely will be under the new administration. Good luck and buy now.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob G:
Better buy one soon if you can find one locally. Most gun shops can't even get any at most large distributors. Stag Arms are totally back ordered as most of the manufacturers are. Rock River are in the same situation. The election results have many running afraid that the assault weapons ban will be reinstated as it surely will be under the new administration. Good luck and buy now.

BobG is correct.

You might be able to get an AR in stock somewhere. But I don't know where right now. You can look at the vendor list at AR15.com's industry section and start calling. If you troll the local gun shops you might get lucky.

RRA is six months behind. My favorite vendor Del Ton is swamped with orders. So many that they're having trouble keeping up with phone calls and e-mails.

I bought my spare stripped lowers a year ago. Good thing. No one that I know of has stripped lowers in stock. Everyone is out of new 30 round magazines. The election has sent everyone into a panic.
Beware of price gouging. Not everyone is doing it, but a few vendors have jacked up prices on lowers and magazines.

Good Luck

ZM

Thanks everyone. I've done some reading on the Bushmasters and a lot of people seem to think they are crude and poorly built. I live near a store that has a couple Bushies in stock, one is the ORC model but the one I was interested in was the M4-A3 model which comes with open sights and a tactical light for $1,050. They also had two Smith and Wesson M&P models for a little more money, but I can't find much info on them. Nobody around here sells Rock River. I did some looking online and everywhere they are sold out...but they advertise 1 MOA with the 16" models. I don't know if I really want a 24" barrel, I'd rather stay shorter while maintaining acceptable accuracy if possible....I'd be thrilled with 1 MOA at 100 yards.

I know to build one the lower has to be shipped to a FFL dealer, but what else besides the upper will I need? Stock, what else? I want to buy one soon for the reasons stated above, as I expect them to be banned again but permanently this time.

Our local (Houston-area) Academy stores still have Bushmasters for $825 and variations of the S&W (Stag) M&P 15 starting at $899. I still see them on gunbroker, gunsamerica, etc. at reasonable prices but they are inching up and I'm sure inventories are depleting.

quote:

Originally posted by rowdyredneck:
Thanks everyone. I've done some reading on the Bushmasters and a lot of people seem to think they are crude and poorly built. I live near a store that has a couple Bushies in stock, one is the ORC model but the one I was interested in was the M4-A3 model which comes with open sights and a tactical light for $1,050. They also had two Smith and Wesson M&P models for a little more money, but I can't find much info on them. Nobody around here sells Rock River. I did some looking online and everywhere they are sold out...but they advertise 1 MOA with the 16" models. I don't know if I really want a 24" barrel, I'd rather stay shorter while maintaining acceptable accuracy if possible....I'd be thrilled with 1 MOA at 100 yards.

I know to build one the lower has to be shipped to a FFL dealer, but what else besides the upper will I need? Stock, what else? I want to buy one soon for the reasons stated above, as I expect them to be banned again but permanently this time.

Link to AR15 Build instructions
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782

Ask more questions here if you like or I'll be happy to answer questions via PM or e-mail.

ZM

Thanks Zeke. I just got home from work so I'll look through that link later tonight.

What's everyone's general opinion on the Bushmaster? I was leaning toward that one but after reading some other forums I'm not so sure.

Key word on AR-15 accuracy...........good free floated barrel!

I am a cheap bastard. Buy an Essential Arms complete lower, a S&W m4gery upper in 5.45x39, 25 mags from C-products and 10K rounds of 5.45 from rguns.net. Should run about $2400....but you are set for life.

RRA.

Buy the first AR15 you find in a gunshop and go from there.
Of course, if they have a selection, get the one you like, but GET ONE NOW...don't wait!

Get as much ammo as you can afford and at least 1/2 dozen magazines, P-Mags being the current 'best choice'.
Good Luck!

quote:

Originally posted by BusMaster007:
Buy the first AR15 you find in a gunshop and go from there.
Of course, if they have a selection, get the one you like, but GET ONE NOW...don't wait!

Get as much ammo as you can afford and at least 1/2 dozen magazines, P-Mags being the current 'best choice'.
Good Luck!

Well, I'd stay away from Vulcan/Hesse, Olympic Arms and the Century AR15.

ZM

I have an Olympic that is very accurate and reliable, but perhaps their QC is inconsistent.

I have two bushmasters, both carbine length. I have had no problems whatsoever and I've put hundreds of rounds through them. They are the A3's with the EOtech 553 sight. In my book they are highly recommended and their customer service has been good!

I have a S&W M&P15 carbine. Love it! Accurate right out of the box. Only thing I like better on the RRA is the trigger is crisper than my S&W.
My buddy has the RRA Tactical model and we shoot them side buy side all the time. Both are fine ar's.
Have heard that Stag arms makes the upper and lowers for S&W. And have heard they are a good value if you buy them from them.
MM

Well...I did it. Monday night I called the store and asked what they had in stock, the guy said they had a Bushy M4-A3 with a 16" barrel for $1,050. I looked everywhere online and most places were sold out of pretty much everything, so I decided I better make my move now rather than wait out a backorder that might not be fulfilled before the inevitable ban happens. Last night I debated whether I should make the 45 minute drive in the rain and fog on a highway well known for car/deer accidents, but I decided to take my chances despite being tired. When I arrived I saw the very same rifle with the price marked down to $950! I waited patiently until someone could help me and while I was waiting another guy came up behind me who was interested in the same rifle. Too bad, I was there first. It came with one clip, they only had two more so I bought both. I also bought 1,000 rounds of Wolf .223 and another 1,000 of 7.62x39 for the AK and SKS. As soon as I got home I ordered another 1,000 rounds of .223, but I can't find clips anywhere...everyone seems to be sold out. I wanted more clips for the AK too so I'll have to see what else I can find.
Here she is along with the AK below it:

Congratulations on your purchase!

I suggest you invest $25 in a 9MM buffer. It's heavier than a regular carbine buffer. This will reduce the recoil impulse and make your gun easier to shoot. It's near the bottom of the page.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=categ...play&category_id=244

When you run the Wolf make sure your gun has lots of lube. I use CLP or Synthetic ATF.

You might be able to find "MAGAZINES" at these two places

http://www.44mag.com/

http://www.cproductsllc.com/

Even if they are out, you should go ahead and place an order. Everyone is out of MAGAZINES, so it is best to just get in line now.

I assume you want MAGAZINES and not banana clips:



If you don't like your trigger, I can give you directions on how to clean yours up in a few minutes.

Welcome to the disease.

ZM

AR15 MAGS: 30 round mil spec and 20 rd straight body in stock.

http://www.44mag.com/products.asp?dept=1326

PMAGS are better but everyone is out of them.

AIM has made it clear to me that their sub $10 ar-15 mags are going to stay the SAME price when the new order comes in from c-products. For that reason, I would hold off ordering from 44mag.

They all get their mags from CProducts. CProducts has stated they'll hold their prices at pre-election levels.

quote:

Originally posted by Zeke:
Congratulations on your purchase!

I suggest you invest $25 in a 9MM buffer. It's heavier than a regular carbine buffer. This will reduce the recoil impulse and make your gun easier to shoot. It's near the bottom of the page.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=categ...play&category_id=244

When you run the Wolf make sure your gun has lots of lube. I use CLP or Synthetic ATF.

You might be able to find "MAGAZINES" at these two places

http://www.44mag.com/

http://www.cproductsllc.com/

Even if they are out, you should go ahead and place an order. Everyone is out of MAGAZINES, so it is best to just get in line now.

I assume you want MAGAZINES and not banana clips:



If you don't like your trigger, I can give you directions on how to clean yours up in a few minutes.

Welcome to the disease.

ZM

Better yet then switching to a heavier buffer is to install a gas valve. They are available or if you are handy you can make your own such as I have on my lathe. I've talked to a few of the big name builders and they say, and I agree, that they don't like to see all that heavy mass (heavy buffer, carrier, and bolt) slamming home. Said it takes it's wear and tear on parts.

quote:

Originally posted by Zeke:
They all get their mags from CProducts. CProducts has stated they'll hold their prices at pre-election levels.

Which is the MAIN reason to avoid ordering from 44mag and go with AIM. 44 is listing everything at higher prices in spite of cproducts keeping prices the same. Gouging just pisses me off....it's not about the $2.50, it's about people capitalizing on fear.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
AIM has made it clear to me that their sub $10 ar-15 mags are going to stay the SAME price when the new order comes in from c-products. For that reason, I would hold off ordering from 44mag.

Just wondering, where is this AIM? I don't spend as much time around these forums as I'd like to so I'm not familiar with it.

quote:

Originally posted by rowdyredneck:

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
AIM has made it clear to me that their sub $10 ar-15 mags are going to stay the SAME price when the new order comes in from c-products. For that reason, I would hold off ordering from 44mag.

Just wondering, where is this AIM? I don't spend as much time around these forums as I'd like to so I'm not familiar with it.

Aim Surplus is in Ohio. http://www.aimsurplus.com/

Thanks. I just ordered a bunch for the AK and the AR. The AR mags should be shipped in about three weeks he said.