Which 'A R' style rifle.

15 December 2008, 05:17

Fish30114

Gentlemen, I am wanting to purchase an 'A R' style rifle with high capacity mag in 308--I think. Not to be apocolyptic, but for defense. slash high round filed shooting, target shooting. I prefer to buy one really good rifle over tweaking a less accurate out of the box rig. A really good trigger is an absolute for me.

I suppose I would consider a 223 as well, but was wanting more lethality, so thus my thought on the 30 cal. I am very naive on the various mfgs. but have found Bushmasters in 308 and many others in .223 cal.

I would define a high cap mag as 20 min.

Thanks for your thoughts.

15 December 2008, 08:32

H.C.

I prefer the Armalite AR-10, it is a good accurate rifle. Good luck with your choice.

15 December 2008, 16:31

CARLOSTHEJACKAL

I just bought 2 DPMS panthers. one is the 308b and the other is the sass. I"m very happy with them both. You can still find some on gunbroker.com, however the prices seem to keep climbing.

15 December 2008, 18:32

butchloc

it may be a case of which one can you find. my choice is for the JP one, but it is also $3000.

16 December 2008, 00:13

muzzle

DPMS

16 December 2008, 05:38

Zeke

quote:
Originally posted by butchloc:
it may be a case of which one can you find. my choice is for the JP one, but it is also $3000.

+1

If you find either a DPMS or Armalite 308, buy it. The panic buying has emptied the shelves of anything remotely AR related.

17 December 2008, 00:52

Fish30114

Good point fella's. There are very few in stock on my favorite sites, and a very very very few in 308.

Thanks for the insight!

17 December 2008, 04:59

ralph malph

quote:
Originally posted by Fish30114:
Good point fella's. There are very few in stock on my favorite sites, and a very very very few in 308.

Thanks for the insight!

My favorite AR/Stoner rifles are 6.5 Grendel.
Ballistics beat the .308 at a range longer than you'd want to use a .223 as does accuracy and you can use the uppers with different mags on standard 5.56/.223 lowers.

If it comes to zombie time, swap uppers with a dead zombie and steal his magazines and 5.56.

Les Baer and Alexander Arms both chamber it if you aren't up to it. Hadn't looked into uppers from anyone else. Dies are cheap, brass is reasonably easy to find. Beats the 6.8SPC by a long shot on one hole groups. Turns 30 rounders into 26 round mags with modified feed lips and followers.

Considering most people are unawares, I bet you could even find one on the shelf pretty easy if you asked your friendly neighborhood wholesaler about one.

As for target shooting, it was an evolution of how to put one of the best 6.5mm bench rest target chamberings in a form factor that fed in standard AR/Stoner rifles. Range experience has shown that it worked out mighty fine. Commercially loaded ammo too, if you don't "accurately reload".

My two pennies

17 December 2008, 07:17

Abob

Fish, the great thing about the AR Black rifle is its versatility and after market parts

I hunt coyotes with a Bushmaster lower with bull barrel DPMS upper

17 December 2008, 08:40

Fish30114

OK, I've still got a lot to learn, I think I understand the lower/upper thing, but not certain...I don't want to get into modified mags and such, I'm just not that much of a smith, want to be able to go stock as much as possible---I'm a decent reloader, make plenty good ammo for a lot of rounds, might find some cheap factory stuff for practicing, and 'Zombie Time' if high rate of fire is needed.....Thinking about a Bushmaster or a Armalight right now.

17 December 2008, 17:06

Zeke

quote:
Originally posted by Fish30114:
OK, I've still got a lot to learn, I think I understand the lower/upper thing, but not certain...I don't want to get into modified mags and such, I'm just not that much of a smith, want to be able to go stock as much as possible---I'm a decent reloader, make plenty good ammo for a lot of rounds, might find some cheap factory stuff for practicing, and 'Zombie Time' if high rate of fire is needed.....Thinking about a Bushmaster or a Armalight right now.

Here is some links for people new to AR15s

http://www.ar15.com/forums/top...l?b=3&f=118&t=342873

http://www.ar15.com/forums/top...tml?b=3&f=4&t=226782

18 December 2008, 08:35

Fish30114

Zeke, thanks-helpful intel, AR rifles sound like reloading, once you get into there is REALLY a lot to learn! I'll keep boning up, but I'm gonna take the plunge pretty soon, I'm still thinking Armalite or Bushmaster......

18 December 2008, 08:45

tsturm

quote:
Originally posted by Fish30114:
Zeke, thanks-helpful intel, AR rifles sound like reloading, once you get into there is REALLY a lot to learn! I'll keep boning up, but I'm gonna take the plunge pretty soon, I'm still thinking Armalite or Bushmaster......

I just bought a Bushmaster A-2 rifle. I am no AR expert but the fit & finish is great! We will see after 2000 rounds or so!!

18 December 2008, 08:53

Steve E.

About 4 years ago I bought an AR10(Armalite)A2 style and haven't had any problem at all. My favorite reload for it will usually keep all shots under an inch at 100 yds.

Steve E......

18 December 2008, 11:27

COOL

quote:
Originally posted by Fish30114:
Gentlemen, I am wanting to purchase an 'A R' style rifle with high capacity mag in 308--I think. Not to be apocolyptic, but for defense. slash high round filed shooting, target shooting. I prefer to buy one really good rifle over tweaking a less accurate out of the box rig. A really good trigger is an absolute for me.

I suppose I would consider a 223 as well, but was wanting more lethality, so thus my thought on the 30 cal. I am very naive on the various mfgs. but have found Bushmasters in 308 and many others in .223 cal.

I would define a high cap mag as 20 min.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Get the ARMALITE AR10A4

20 December 2008, 06:54

Fish30114

Thanks COOL, that was one of my top consideration. I'll be looking for availability on one!

22 December 2008, 04:05

kev5000

HI,

I am waiting for the XCR in 308,it will coming out some time this year,I think.And like all XCR you will be able to change calipers with it,maybe 338 fed,260 rem?,anything with the same 308 rim and length,Kev

25 December 2008, 02:28

COOL

quote:
Originally posted by Fish30114:
Thanks COOL, that was one of my top consideration. I'll be looking for availability on one!

I have one in Black with the front and rear sights and 4 mags. Less than 100 rounds down the tube.

1300.00

28 December 2008, 23:30

Fish30114

Cool, I will send PM.

Thanks--Fish

29 December 2008, 05:56

gsganzer

If you have the cash, look at POF (Patriot Ordnance factory). They make a cadillac of an AR style rifle.

05 January 2009, 16:14

billt

For what it's worth, this months new "Gun Tests" magazine did an evaluation of three AR-15 type rifles. A Rock River Arms, a DPMS, and a Stag Arms. All guns were in the M-4 configuration. Both the DPMS and the Rock River Arms got failing grades, ("F"), because they had problems with both of them chambering and extracting, effectively turning them into single shots. The Stag Arms got a "B+". Bill T.

07 January 2009, 07:15

Acrnstlkr

i have a stag ar-15,.223 topped with a trijicon acog. nothin more deadly on yotes and fox. Now only about 500 rounds down the pipe. long term i dont know but all standard mill spec so not a prob for parts! i do recomend for the extra $$ the ambedextras mag and safty. ups the resale if so inclined.

07 January 2009, 09:21

bucko

All that I know is that my little Bushmaster is a shooter..
If I stay away from hot loads or cheap steel cased shells it functions like a charm.
And shoots extremely well, my handloads shoot half inch groups.
Although I have to say that the trigger sucked, and I replaced it with a Rock River.
Great little rifle and a pleasure to shoot.

26 January 2009, 16:33

Lloyd Smale

If gun test failed them its about a given that there good guns. Those guys are idiots!

quote:
Originally posted by billt:
For what it's worth, this months new "Gun Tests" magazine did an evaluation of three AR-15 type rifles. A Rock River Arms, a DPMS, and a Stag Arms. All guns were in the M-4 configuration. Both the DPMS and the Rock River Arms got failing grades, ("F"), because they had problems with both of them chambering and extracting, effectively turning them into single shots. The Stag Arms got a "B+". Bill T.

26 January 2009, 17:43

billt

quote:
Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
If gun test failed them its about a given that there good guns. Those guys are idiots!

I wouldn't call them "Idiot's". In fact I take into account more of what they say, than some primped and sanatized article from the major rags that accept advertising money from the very people who guns they evaluate. That's about as biased as an NBC report on Hussein. They actually go out incognito and buy the guns they test from everyday dealers. Not get guns that have been gone through and given special attention by the manufacturer because they know it's a gun that will be elvaluated. If they didn't buy that DPMS and Rock River carbine, some other poor guy would have, and gotten stuck with a malfunctioning rifle. They simply buy and shoot, just like you and me. Then report the results of what happened. If it's something weird, they'll report that as well. They do much the same with accuracy testing. Factory ammo, load and shoot. It is a far more realistic way to rate a stock guns performance than to have some handloading expert from a major rag spoon feed immaculately prepared handloads into a specially prepared rifle that has been checked 11 ways to Sunday before they turn it over to them. I've read countless times in the major gun rags where one of their star reporters will BUY the gun that was sent to them. Hell, I would to. Their getting all but a custom built factory gun. Bill T.

03 February 2009, 00:28

Duckear

quote:
Originally posted by billt:
quote:
Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
If gun test failed them its about a given that there good guns. Those guys are idiots!

I wouldn't call them "Idiot's". In fact I take into account more of what they say, than some primped and sanatized article from the major rags that accept advertising money from the very people who guns they evaluate. That's about as biased as an NBC report on Hussein. They actually go out incognito and buy the guns they test from everyday dealers. Not get guns that have been gone through and given special attention by the manufacturer because they know it's a gun that will be elvaluated. If they didn't buy that DPMS and Rock River carbine, some other poor guy would have, and gotten stuck with a malfunctioning rifle. They simply buy and shoot, just like you and me. Then report the results of what happened. If it's something weird, they'll report that as well. They do much the same with accuracy testing. Factory ammo, load and shoot. It is a far more realistic way to rate a stock guns performance than to have some handloading expert from a major rag spoon feed immaculately prepared handloads into a specially prepared rifle that has been checked 11 ways to Sunday before they turn it over to them. I've read countless times in the major gun rags where one of their star reporters will BUY the gun that was sent to them. Hell, I would to. Their getting all but a custom built factory gun. Bill T.

They have really crappy luck with guns. I have had nowhere near the trouble with new guns that they seem to have.

Also, a quality survey on one is statistically invalid and nothing more than an anecdote. My dad gets their report and I read it. Some very useful information, but take their grading scale and 'rating' with a grain of salt.