Hello everyone, I am new to the forum. I have a question about the M1A, I have different types of military firearms and now I want an M1A to add to my collection and I want to get the plain jane rifle not one tricked out, so what can I expect accuracy wise from a new one M1A.

Thanks
James

around 1.5 to 2.0 moa

COOL usually drinks Pina Coladas when he's on the bench so you might do a little better...

I shoot High Power with a couple of guys that use M1A's. One is a Master and the other (his father) is a High Master. Both regularly shoot out the X-ring during the slow prone stage-quite a task with a 1.5-2 MOA gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
COOL usually drinks Pina Coladas when he's on the bench so you might do a little better...

Well, he did say he wanted the "plain jane" version, so how the heck can he expect < 2 MOA out of the box?

Spend the money and get the real deal!

Juggernaut

Are you sure you shoot with a couple of guys or just watched a couple guys shoot? You clearly do not know much about M1A's.

Two Master shooters will not be wasting their time with a couple of base model M1A's. You can go from $850.00 upwards of $3000.00 for M1A's.

Base model M1A's will generally shoot under 2" at 100 with good 155 to 168 grain ammo. Not the surplus junk that many plinkers through down range.

Halftrack

It is not much money to get the loaded package and it is well worth it. They are great rifles and will not disappoint you. We fired rebuilt M14 rifles that were matched out on the unit rifle teams in the Marines. We fired out to 1000 yards with iron sights. After shooting them on the teams I really did not want my M16A2 back. That said my issue M16A2 that we shot on the intramural teams would right at to just under minuet angle out to 500 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Lottfan:
Juggernaut

Are you sure you shoot with a couple of guys or just watched a couple guys shoot? You clearly do not know much about M1A's.

Clearly, you didn't read my post correctly. These are not standard model M1A's-both are the NM variant. My post was in reply to COOL's statement that they are 1.5-2 MOA guns-clearly, they are more accurate than that. And for the record: yes, I do shoot with these guys.

Halftrack

I have fired several different standard Springfield Armoury M1-A's.
All of them have been pretty good shooters, except for the 2 SOCOM's I shot.

The ammo you use has a big influence on accuracy.

With GOOD 147gr military type ball you can expect @ 3 " groups at 100 yards. Crappy ball ammo will give fliers causing much larger groups.

Federal 168gr Match ammo usually shoots quite a bit better, especially as the range increases.

If my memory is correct, a US military built M14 was acceptable if it shot within 3.5 inches at 100 yards.

The accuracy of a modern plain jane will likely be similiar.

Things to check: That the sights are tight and do not wobble.

The action fits tightly within the stock.

Modern barrels tend to be better than chromed ex military. Even the modern chromed barrels.

The choice of ammunition is a real limiting factor. Military ammunition is not capable of match accuracy. Most of the stuff will shoot within 3 MOA, if it shoots better than 2 MOA, that is above average.

You add 3 MOA ammo to a 3 MOA rifle, don't expect to shoot one inch groups.

In my opinion, Federal Gold Medal match is the best production ammunition made. It is capable of half MOA in the right rifle.

Halftrack,

With a WELL BUILT rack grade, you can expect 2 minutes with ball ammo it likes and occasionally get under an inch with handloaded 168's or 155 Palmas.

The two variables are the ammo and the builder. Since qualified builders are few and getting fewer, the pedigree of the rifle is important. USGI parts are scarce and expensive, adding to the "pedigree" aspect.

Mark
DR #1228 - with the '14!
HM Service Rifle

In a Galaxy Long ago and FAR FAR AWAY:
Good friend of mine in a Marine Match in Wisconsin back about 63 or 64 took his deer rifle with optics (.30-06 Win/Redfield maybe, as I recall) and his slightly smithed issue M1 along with his 1911. Figured the Win would get him the win.

With a spotter, was having a hard time with the deer rifle on the long range portion of the match even hitting the target at all.

Switched to his M1 and wouldn't impress 1/4MOA shooters today but did a nice job with iron sights out to 600 with the M1.

Spotter said "you shoulda left that deer rifle at home and you woulda took the match."

Was match ammo, 58 issue, can't recall the headstamp and it's too late to wake him up to ask.

A good friend accompanied to my farm this weekend and he brought a fairly new Springfield M1A "loaded' which I believe has a national match stainless barrel. It also had a long flash supressor that had holes drilled in it like a muzzle brake inlieu of the typical slots.
We were shooting off a bench with open sights with 150 gr winchester ammo (softs).
Being in that he is mid 40's and i am 52 (old eyes) we could not really see the 2" orange bull @ 100 yrds but we did thew best we could to aim for the center of the target. We consistantly shot 2" groups. I think if we had any type of scope this particular rifle was a MOA gun. I was impressed to say the least.
I do think that "flash supressor" was realy more of a muzzle brake. The gun had very little recoil (gas operated, heavy and a brake). Easy to shoot!

quote:

Originally posted by Juggernaut76:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 458Lottfan:
Juggernaut

Are you sure you shoot with a couple of guys or just watched a couple guys shoot? You clearly do not know much about M1A's.



Clearly, you didn't read my post correctly. These are not standard model M1A's-both are the NM variant. My post was in reply to COOL's statement that they are 1.5-2 MOA guns-clearly, they are more accurate than that. And for the record: yes, I do shoot with these guys.

I think it is your reading of the OP at fault here. The original poster wanted to know what kind of accuracy to expect out of plain jane M1A. COOL was right on at 1.5-2 MOA.

The question was NOT 'how accurate are M1As?". You are indeed correct that NM guns are much better than 1.5MOA, but that wasnt the question.

quote:

The question was NOT 'how accurate are M1As?". You are indeed correct that NM guns are much better than 1.5MOA, but that wasnt the question.

Nor was it the response as the response did not mention that the claimed results were from NM weapons.

LWD

And, if you really want a fun M-1A, try a full NM match version in .243 WCF! Of course it's a handloading proposition to get the best performance out of it, but gee is it fun. Recoil? What recoil, less than an M-16. Discovered these rifles shooting against a woman in Cali who put most of us big boys to shame with her .243 M-1A. I had to have one too!

I understand they will make an M1A in a 7-08 as well. Not sute about a 260 Rem. All 308 Win based cases.

I special ordered am M-1A in 7mm-08 back in 1989, finally cancelled the order in 1993.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 458Lottfan:
Juggernaut

Are you sure you shoot with a couple of guys or just watched a couple guys shoot? You clearly do not know much about M1A's.

Two Master shooters will not be wasting their time with a couple of base model M1A's. You can go from $850.00 upwards of $3000.00 for M1A's.

Base model M1A's will generally shoot under 2" at 100 with good 155 to 168 grain ammo. Not the surplus junk that many plinkers through down range.

Halftrack

458Lottfan is correct. I have shot a lot of M14/M1A rack gade rifles over the years. All of them that were not abused would shoot 1.5-2 moa with quality ammo. The caveat there is "quality ammo". Quality match ammo with 150, 155, 168 and 175 gr match bullets is best. Some lots of M80 will hold 2 moa but most are in the 3+ moa range. Foreign crap is much worse most often.

A 2 moa rifle is quite capable of low end Master scores on the NMC. It's the shooter that counts. If you shoot matches with a 1.5-2 moa rack grade M1A then you must understand your cone of fire and accept every shot within that cone of fire. Do not "chase the spotter". Remember also that a wind up through a full value of 6-8 mph is not worth the one moa value of the rack grade's windage adjustment. If the bullet hits within your cone of fire for the range you are shooting at do not adjust the sight. That holds even if 3 consecutive shots land out at 3'clock in your cone of fire (assuming the 8 ring is cone of fire for example). Sure enough if you go 1 click left the next shot is the one that would have been at 9'clock in your cone of fire and that windage adjustment will blow it out into the 7 or 6 ring. Thus if there is not a wind at full value of more than 5-8 mph then do not adjust the sight. Just hold hard and shoot straight away. Your score will be higher that way.

Any sight adjustment moves the center of your cone of fire. A sight adjustment does not move the strike of the next bullet. That next bullet can and will land anywhere within that cone of fire. Remember that simple rule.

Larry Gibson

Sure is refreshing to read from someone used to shooting a 7.62mm rifle after all the current 5.56mm mouse gun shooters.

LLS

Here's what mine will do at 100 yards with not so great eyes.

10 shots 168 grain


150 grain m80 ball

I have several M1A's
If you want to handload for it.
Try Speer 130 gr. HP they seem to shoot really well in the M1A Under 1" scoped

quote:

Originally posted by nugman:
I had a pre-ban Springfield National Match M1a ( think it was made in 1984, can't remember for sure). I never shot in competition with it.

I may have put 200 rounds through it before I sold it. Off a sandbag rest at 100 yards, iron sights, with a load of 168 grain Sierra Matchking with 42 grains IMR 4064, I would get sub-MOA 5 round groups. I would tend to state the groups were more like 0.75 -.85 moa.

I didn't do anything to that rifle, except oil and clean it. I'm not sure what they are doing to a NM or loaded version these days, but my NM M1A was evidently a totally stock Springfield NM. It was glass bedded in the action/ magazine area. It had a NM front sight. I can't remember if the rear sight was 1 moa click or 0.5 moa.

It was a nice rifle.

I had under my care, for about 3 years, two Super Match, ahh heck. The guy that built them was a Navy Armour. He forgot more about M14's, and both had forged receivers, then most people know. With his hand loads, and open sites, if at 100 yards I was over a 1/2", it was ME. He had two M-16's that I was 'loaned' that did the same thing, with our handloads. I don't exactly know what parts he had in em, but, they were the RIGHT parts if you wanted to put all your shots ON that dime above.

As for a stock grade, never shot one, but, those rifles remain my fondest shooting memories, that is those that the .510 Van Horn hasn't knocked out of my brain...

I know I didn't answer the guys question, but posting this brought back fond memories. Something I could use right now...

quote:

Originally posted by Juggernaut76:
I shoot High Power with a couple of guys that use M1A's. One is a Master and the other (his father) is a High Master. Both regularly shoot out the X-ring during the slow prone stage-quite a task with a 1.5-2 MOA gun.

I bet they aren't shooting "the plain jane" M1A halftrack is talking about either.