I am sorry if this question has been posted to death, as i suspect it has, but I recently desided to buy a AR as my present for graduating collage at 50. Am getting my EE and it was not easy working full time and going to school.

I am not looking for a compatative type AR or a hunting type AR, just a all around well made and 1000% reliable AR for target, plinking and home defence.

Looking to get one with out a hand rail and peferably compact with a 16" barrel and good solid iron sights, but also easly accepts optics.

Been doing some resurch and so far Windahm Arms ARs keep poping up as excellent, among the best ARs in the $1100-$1300 price range. As this firearm purchase is about as pure a want and not a need as i am likely to ever make, I would like to stay as close to $1200 as I can. lastly does it realy matter if my AR gas a DGI system or a GP system? Will be getting it in 5.56mm

I reload so ammo should not be a issue.
So what do all you AR experts think and recommend to me?

Thanks,
Arthur.

From what I have heard the Wyndham AR's are plenty good, for what you have in mind.

I have been shooting the Direct Gas Impingment AR's for over 35 years.

I have never had any problems with them.

quote:

Originally posted by ARTJR338WM:
lastly does it realy matter if my AR gas a DGI system or a GP system?

No, it doesn't matter. First of all, the colloquialism, "direct impingement", is factually incorrect. Stoner's design is not like the Ljungman or Hakim. It is in-line piston.

Long op-rod piston systems for ARs are, by definition, after-thoughts. They are also solutions in search of a problem. If in-line piston were so horrible why did the US military recently adopt the M-110 (7.62)? The answer: in-line piston is more accurate. And the reliability issue, for the sapient, is overblown. The argument that invokes comparison to the AK-47 system in downright inane - if you were happy to have a 5-6 MOA rifle why were you looking at ARs?

You can read about carrier tilt if you wish, but if I wanted a piston design I'd opt for something like a Sig, Daewoo, FAL, SCAR. etc. I have a Daewoo and like it but that has more to do with the fixed blade ejector (which obviates dropped extraction).

In your position I'd select a Colt 6920.

Sam

First off, would say congrats for getting your EE, not an easy road to take!! There are so many choices these days for AR15's and most are fine for what you are requesting. Colts, Fulton Armory, Windham(Bushmaster,) etc. will run well and are accurate. The "issue" rear sights work fine and can be improved with some mods as hooded aperture. Match grade components to the rear sight can be added later if desired giving .5 or .25moa adjustments. Go with removable carry handle/flat top upper so optics can be used whenever. Lots of good builders out there, but one I have used for several years with good success is Compass Lake Eng., Mr. Frank White. I have used both Douglas and Krieger barrels on his builds and in either 7 or 8 twist gave fine accuracy. Other option you may have not considered is building one yourself to suit. Not a big deal once you get the lower receiver in hand other than finding quality components on a timely basis these days. It will take patience, but lots of satisfaction in building an accurate, dependable rifle of your own making. Just some thoughts.

PS Been using the old fashion gas tube arrangement for over 40 years and not had a problem.

Sam, quit making me agree with you so much, lol. If the M16 wasn't fielded with some of the minor problems it had, and including a powder/ammo problem, no cleaning tools or manuals, then perhaps it wouldn't have gotten such a bad rap and start in Nam.

Another DI rifle, that in my opinion is a very fine one, is the French MAS 49/56. Few know that it was actually invented before the Germans invaded France. The inventor fled to England and while there tried to get the British interested in producing/using it, but they didn't. I think had the British done so it would have made a major impact on WWII as did the Garand.

My vote goes to a Daniel Defense, Colt, Noveske, Larue or Bravo Company ("BCM") at the top tier, Windham, S&W M&P, Spikes Tactical, Stag or Rock River at the mid tier. I have two BCM rifles and I absolutely love them!

My suggestion where to spend your money if you're going to go the component route and assemble a rifle is to spend first on a cold hammer-forged barrel and a top-of-the-line auto (more mass than a semi-auto) bolt carrier group made by BCM, Daniel Defense, Larue, Colt, etc. Uppers and lowers are all fairly standard and many are made by the same manufacturer and then branded with roll marks added by the specific company.

If you're going to want to mount an optic or dot sight at some point, my suggestion is to skip buying a carry handle and buy a set of Troy Battle Sights, which in my opinion are the gold standard for iron sights. You could buy other sets of precision sights, but the Troy's are outstanding and do come with the long-range flip over aperture. If you're just interested in going the plastic handguard route, you'll have a A4 front sight base and only need to buy a rear sight.

Regarding accessories that are MUCH better than the original rifle design, check out Magpul for butt stocks, polymer forearms, pistol grips, and other accessories. Magpul PMags are the GOLD STANDARD for polymer magazines and many find them much more desirable than aluminum GI mags. If you decide to stick with aluminum mags, I highly suggest replacing the followers with Magpul enhanced followers.

Check out ar15.com for a TON of information. These rifles are all inherently accurate and easy to assemble and maintain. As like anything else in the shooting sports world, the damn things are completely addictive and you'll soon find out that with the extra parts left over after upgrading what you originally bought, you could just about build another complete rifle... and then it begins!

I have been absolutely obsessed with these rifles for the past 6 years and I'm happy to offer any other suggestions to you. I will commit that I am not a specific "brand whore" and that I've done a ton of research on many parts and accessories to see what was the best bang for the buck, so to speak. Best of luck to you!

-John

actually all ar's are put together from parts made by somebody else. hence by picking a good name you are pretty well guarantee to have a good piece

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
actually all ar's are put together from parts made by somebody else. hence by picking a good name you are pretty well guarantee to have a good piece

That's not exactly as true as it once was. There are manufacturers that make everything in house save for screws, springs, and maybe stocks. It use to be only so many manufacturers forged receivers. Not anymore, quite a few companies are turning them especially the billet receivers.

Go with the Colt flat top w/ removeable carry handle. I have an HBAR and it's a fine rifle. The Colt's might cost a bit more than the others but they also hold their value better. In addition, both the actions and barrels are proof tested...every single one. No so with most of the other brands. The Colt 6920 is a good choice.

There are a lot of very good rifles available. IMHO it's the optics that can make the most difference in putting shots on target, particularly for many of us with aging eyes.

Thanks to all for your superb advice and information. I am now far better informed than prior to my posting for help. I can now choose a AR platform based on factual information not misinformation.

Again, thanks to all who replied.

Regards to all,
Arthur.

I am more than pleased with my DD M4V7. It cost a bit more than a Colt when I bought it but came equipped the way I wanted it, being light of weight, a mid-length design and equipped their lean modular free float rail. I am thinking quality is the same and I did not have to swap parts. Depends on what you are looking for. That said, my $700 PSA shoots with the DD. So far I am pretty impressed with the PSA. Time will tell I suppose.

Does anyone make a bad one? I mean from the OP's standpoint. He's not in competition, not LE, not in the military. I am no expert, but have not yet handled one I thought was bad. I have been less than impressed with triggers on a couple, but that is not too big of a deal.

I have a couple Rock Rivers, great guns. An S&W M&P 15. This gun surprised me. The trigger on mine was every bit as good as my two stage RR triggers. I have two uppers by CMMG and Olympic arms. Both very accurate uppers. Building a 5.56 Upper with DPMS barrel and Rock River receiver.

Of the guns (lowers) I have actual experience with, DPMS, Bushmaster, Rock River and S&W M&P15. I would not hesitate to buy any of those guns.

I don't see that much difference in the lowers made by Daniel Defense and Rock River. I have an old Bushmaster that is nicely done as well.

Have not been that impressed by Colt to be honest. The trigger in the one S&W I've shot was terrible.

DD and DCM uppers are just "right."

Personally, when good parts are/were available I really prefer to assemble my own with an ARP, BHW, or other very high quality barrel and an ARP Superbolt or BCM BCG. Being cheap I tend to use RR 2 stage match triggers or triggers done by Bill Springfield.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Does anyone make a bad one?

A very good question. If looking at brand new, I suspect the answer is trending toward "no". This was not always the case; so I think name matters more if buying used. An obvious example is the gravitation to 5.56 chamber specs even when ".223" is stamped on the bbl. Just about everyone has gone this direction. It matters if you're looking for flexibility insofar as use of steel-cased Russian stuff and some milsurp is concerned.

There are other examples, such as extractor spring tension in carbines, staking of gas keys, etc.

"Builds" are not wisely recommended for first time or single AR buyers. Might be reliable, might not. Peruse the trouble-shooting section on arfcom to see why.

Sam

Personally I feel the RRA Match Trigger is one of the best for the money.

When you build one yourself you need to learn all the things that can go wrong and correct them. To me the number one thing done wrong is to just clamp the receiver when tightening the barrel. This can result in "diveting" the barrel index slot in the upper receiver and the gas port and front sight (if using one) being off 12 o'clock or straight up and down. Do you know what to do then? What you should do is clamp the both the receiver and barrel both and use moly grease on the barrel nut threads and front of the barrel flange that the nut bears against. That's just one thing.

As far as cheap AR's out there, Sam is mostly correct, but there are still those that use the cheapest parts they can find to build theirs. There is one lady that owns an AR company that other companies won't answer calls from her when they see her on the ID because she is so bad for this. SARCO use to sale some really bad parts, but many were able to build a functions rifle from them.

RRA was mentioned that they seem to have a good rifle or parts. They should, CMT (owns STAG) makes their AR5 receivers and parts and they are one, if not, the oldest AR15/M16 manufacturer in the country.

Thanks again for all who replied. Will most likely go with Windahm arms as they are with in my price range and have a good rep as making one of the best ARs for around $1000. I plan on using the money saved by buying a WA AR to buy most of my 223 reloading components for use with my Hornady LnL press.

Thanks,
Arthur.

I put mine together with parts and think it's a fine rifle

DPMS lower with trigger spring kit and a polish job

DPMS upper with .750 barrel 1-9 twist....strait with no cut out

Aimpoint T1 on a Daniel Defense mount

Thousands of rounds of 5.56 through it as well as thousands of 22LR with zero complaints

BTW......the CMMG 22LR conversion bolt is a great investment....get one!

I realize the Ciener type .22 conversions are popular, but I would unhesitatingly recommend a dedicated upper unless .22rf use will be very limited. The amount of lead buildup in fast twist .224" diam chromed bbls (and especially @ the gas port) can be downright discouraging.

Sometimes see this advice: "hey Bubba, just shoot it out with .223". No thanks.

Sam

Own two a bone stock Remington R15 with a Bushnell Coyote and a "built gun" with a Plum Crazy synthetic lower and Bushmaster Carbon Upper.

Former is a varmint rifle, not too heavy but no pinweight.

Latter was built to keep the weight down even with a light, scope and laser. Bare it weighs 4.5 pounds, all up, a tad over 6.

Milspec 5.56 does not like the R 15s light primer strike, the Plum/Bushmaster always goes bang.

Either will hold 3/4 MOA with designed loads, just easier with the R 15.

IME, piston ARs are a solution in search of a problem. with two 223/5.56, 260 Rem, 308 and 300 SAUM ARs, I'm still waiting for the first malfunction that has anything to do with the gas system. In fact the only malfunctions were the hard primers in the R 15. R 15 is the camo one.

My most recent AR.
I built it as light as I could to offset the weight of the scope and the big heavy barrel under the handguard.