The Christenen Arms CA 10 is worth a look, as is the Proof Research 308 AR.

Both have carbon fiber wrapped barrels and weigh about the same as most 223 AR's.

They are very accurate...

We have been looking at smaller .308s for a while and some of the contenders I have seen are a big improvement over the M-110. At 5'9 the M110 is just to big and long for me to shoot well in kit from any position that is unsupported. I know some will disagree but there are lots of us who like the Mk12 a lot and I can't see a lot of reason for a small .308 when I will usually choose a 77gr Mk262 or a 190gr Mk248 depending on the task to be accomplished. I have never been a big .308 fan.

I am all for Proof but a buddy is on his second one for a Palma rifle. The first had to go back because of POI shift after about 15 rounds. They acknowledged it was a problem they were combating. This second barrel is much better. Only time will tell how well they hold up.

Better to adopt an accurized 5.56mm using a 77gr TSMK. It's range is about 750m whereas a fair estimate is the .308 gets you another 50-100m.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
Better to adopt an accurized 5.56mm using a 77gr TSMK. It's range is about 750m whereas a fair estimate is the .308 gets you another 50-100m.

I prefer the Mk12 for weight and handling but the M262 does not have the range of the M118LR. I have tried to take the 77gr .224 to 1000yds and it is frustrating. My longest shot (it was in training, stateside) with the M110 and 175gn was 1346m. That won't happen with a 77gr bullet from a Mk12.

Seems like an appropriate role for the already adopted Scar 17.

quote:

Originally posted by 7mmfreak:

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
Better to adopt an accurized 5.56mm using a 77gr TSMK. It's range is about 750m whereas a fair estimate is the .308 gets you another 50-100m.

I prefer the Mk12 for weight and handling but the M262 does not have the range of the M118LR. I have tried to take the 77gr .224 to 1000yds and it is frustrating. My longest shot (it was in training, stateside) with the M110 and 175gn was 1346m. That won't happen with a 77gr bullet from a Mk12.

That is far in excess of what either of those calibers ought to be expected to do. There's a .300WM in inventory for that.

Correct, and the XM2010 is the best rifle we have fielded yet for long range work but it is not a do all tool. I was just saying that the .308Win with M118LR does not just get you 150m more than a 5.56x45mm shooting Mk262.

At what range under identical conditions do you have a 50% chance of connecting on a first shot with each?

I shoot the 75gn Hornady HPBT and 77gn SMK a lot in DMR practical matches and I would say I have about a 75% (or better) chance of hitting a 10" plate at 600yds under most conditions to include being gassed and stressed. Think about what a Master Class shooter can do with a 5.56mm in Service Rifle Competition. I have never taken a 5.56x45 out for data collection between 600m and 1000m just to the 1000yds KD range and found it to be an exercise in frustration as previously stated. I asked an older guy I shoot with what he thought about a .223 with 90gn bullets for a cheaper alternative for Palma practice and he just laughed; he's the winning-est guy I know behind a Palma rifle.

With a M118LR in an M-110 (or equivalent load in my practical match rifle) or with a Palma Rifle and 155gr or 190gr I can hit a 10 (20" is a touch wider than most dude's shoulders, right?)or better on an NRA LR target 50% of the time at 1000yds. The same gent mentioned above can do it often enough with irons and a sling that it is really humbling considering I still shoot mostly optics and bipods vice irons and sling. Under 800m against Iron Maidens I won't miss often (from any reasonably stable position) and if I do the wind will be kicking or I will be smoked.

With a .300WM and A191 I cannot say exactly because there are not a lot of ranges on Ft Bragg where you can shoot the .300WM due to restrictive SDZ's and ammunition allotments are small for us when we are stateside. The best range for it is currently shut down for construction of an adjacent range but my longest first round hit on that range was at 1063m on a LaRue steel target which is about 12"x24". That was a sample of one but I had just made a run (without a miss) from 500m to that target which was the furthest LOS I could achieve on that range using those targets.

I admittedly have the least amount of experience with that rifle and ammo but it is long, heavy, and not my go to gun for most shooting. I also cannot carry a lot of ammo for it. Those combined are why I say it is not a do all tool. That is why I say a Mk12 is great; shorter, lighter, more ammo, and handles a lot (most) situations. I am not tall enough or have long enough arms to be really comfortable behind the fixed stock and longer, heavier barrel/forearm of the M-110 if I have to shoot from an unsupported position. The new C-SASS should address all of my chief complaints about the current SASS and not give up a lot of range (if any in the real world). I say this based on my experience shooting the LMT 16" offering during some training this past fall.

I am by no means the best shooter I know. There are several (from younger guys in their 30s to older guys in their 70s) I shoot with that I would never take a bet against at 1000yds for 50% odds with a .308Win.

With military issue ammo a good .308 bolt action or AR platform should be able to hit the 12" Bullseye at 900 meters (about 990 yards) at least 75% of the time. In the hands of a really experienced shooter it will do much better than that even in brisk, variable winds.

Perhaps, but I would never promise you that if I were in kit and anything other than really fresh. And in the real world unless you were there waiting and prepared, then estimating range and hitting minute of dude is good work when you get past 700 to 800m.

The best ways to save weight in an AR10 type Sniper rifle is on the barrel, handguard, buttstock, bipod, and in the optic.

The Christian Arms CA-10 and the Proof Research AR's in 308 have carbon fiber wrapped barrels and carbon fiber handguards. By choosing a light weight buttstock, and using a grip pod bipod, you have a 7.62 AR Sniper that is lighter than many 5.56 AR's.

As to the Optic, again something like the Night Force 2.5 to 10, either the 36mm objective or even the 42mm objective are fairly small and light, compared to most "sniper" scopes.

For some combat situations I would like to have a 5.5x50 ACOG or a 3.5x35 ACOG to mount on it as well...

Let me also add that the above AR Rifles make a great deer and pig hunting set up.

I used a CA-10 last year to take 2 deer and 3 pigs, and I will be using it this year also.