quote:

Originally posted by rcraig:
Will the optics package be American made ?

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
AR platform can't take the pressures. Standard 270-308; boring.
This is the first real evolutionary step in small arms ammo since 1853. But hand/re loading composite cartridge cases will be the challenge, with the plastic version.
Brass/steel composite; I can see that. But we are trying to get away from using brass; a strategic material.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I didn't say it was Revolutionary; I said it was Evolutionary. Big difference.
"Better" is in the eye of the requirements documents. Not in terms of civilian users. And one requirement is the proliferation of body armor, particularly in the _______ Army. The 5.56 cannot meet the spec with regard to that.
We'll see how it works in practice. As for recoil, it is very low. I can't say how I know that.
This is why I never wanted to work in Small Arms; everyone is an Expert, or thinks he or she is; military and civilian. I worked in Tank Armament; the experts are few, and real.

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Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
An M4 carbine with loaded 30-round magazine weighs 7.3 pounds. The Sig XM5 with empty 20-round magazine weighs 8.38 pounds. Loaded, I am guessing the SIG will be close to a 9-pound rifle.
Seems like a significant difference. Wonder what the infantry will think of it.

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Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Mike, do you think "the next war" will be fought by soldiers with rifles, or will the heroes be the guys with backhoes who can bury the millions upon millions of dead?

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Originally posted by crbutler:
While I get the need for improved armor penetration, I’m not so sure a overpressure .270 short is the answer.

Recoil mitigation is probably purely a function of the suppressor, and while I see the advantages of that in some situations, the weight, size, and heat signature makes me wonder how well it will serve, especially in an overpressure select fire rifle.

Is this new round that much more effective than .308 (or .30-06) AP on armor? Makes me question “evolutionary” or if this really is progress.

Traditionally, rifle fire was more used to control the enemy’s movement, and they were killed/neutralized by crew served weapons (artillery, tank cannon, air attack) supporting the troops.

I guess what I’m getting at is if we need to go back to a true full power cartridge, I fail to see how this is evolutionary. The US can produce traditional .308/.30-06 style ammo for a heck of a lot less money than $4/round, and a modest weight savings for what, 10x cost increases with significant issues with your logistical chain seem silly.

How much of this is change for the sake of change, vs. actual improvements?

I had thought we had fought out the need for lighter weapons and larger combat load ammunition supply before this?

The usual complaint I’ve heard from the line folks is that the M4 is “old” and “we haven’t had a new rifle in 60 years” yet to look at that rifle in the photos it’s externally very similar to an AR. I don’t get how this is evolutionary, as we haven’t even determined if providing all troops with suppressors and high degree of electronic monitoring/interaction of weapon systems would be helpful, let alone practical.

I get that this is more a troop trial than an actual change.

I also am thinking some of this is being driven by imperatives other than a more lethal and effective infantry rifle.

quote:

This is why I never wanted to work in Small Arms; everyone is an Expert, or thinks he or she is;

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Here is a better article from Army times: For those metric challenged this is a .270. Note the composite cartridges; other versions were plastic and steel.
It also operates at 90K psi; I can't wait to build one on a Mauser. (bait)
I have always said that the small arms community could raise pressure by having a steel case head and a steel primer. Now it is a reality.
And these rifles only have 13 inch barrels!
Our tank ammo is steel and compressed propellant. Why not do that?

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Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
After I thought about this a bit I realized that it would be easy to make run of the mill brass and work up a load for this chambering. It doesnt HAVE to be a higher than normal pressure round. I'm still curious how the stainless based cases would work out for reloading though. Maybe I could use some for my 260 loads.