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Does Stag Arms manufacture DPMS lowers? Thanks, Roger | ||
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Post #1 Group Icon Group: Members Member No.: 1,128 Posts: 70 Joined: Aug. 18th 2006 Online Status: OFFLINE Lewis Machine & Tool LMT Lauer DS Arms PWA Eagle Armalite Knights Armament Barrett Continental Machine Tool Stag Rock River Arms High Standard Noveske Century (New) Global Tactical CLE S&W MGI Wilson Tactical Grenadier Precision Colt LAR Manufacturing LAR Bushmaster Ameetec DPMS CMMG Double Star Fulton Armory Spike's Tactical JVP Double Star LRB Charles Daly Mega Machine Shop Mega GSE Dalphon POF Alexander Arms Olympic Olympic SGW Tromix Palmetto Dalphon Frankford Century (Old) Sun Devil Sun Devil forged billet receivers Superior Superior Arms Lauer (New) Aero Precision Aero Precision | |||
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SmokingJ, You show two different manufactures for Stag and DPMS. I bought a couple of left-handed Stags and finally bought a right-handed DPMS. They both look exactly alike other than being right and left handed. Kind of strange both companies put out exact copies of AR-15's. Roger QSL | |||
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Am I missing something? I only see one manufacturer for Stag and DPMS. I'm not certain that the same manufacturer makes both DPMS's AR15 and AR10 receivers. AR 15 receivers are made to a certain specification and often a certain finishing coating so why wouldn't some look identical? On top of that the specifications may be military specs give or take what full auto machining is left out of civilian receivers (that is so you can't put full auto parts in them without drastic machining and drill of the necessary holes. | |||
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From reading your post, it looks as though CMT is making Stag and LAR is making DPMS. That's what I meant by two manufactures. As to the rifles them selves, duplicates. Not military specs, just plain copies. My next question is, do all the manufactures of AR-15's use the same CNC programs? They must be, as if you lay the Stag next to the DPMS, they appear to be exactly the same. Roger | |||
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There are more then a few AR's that are made to military specs. CMT is the parent company of Stag or in other words Stag is CMT's retail outlet. CMT has made Colts from the very beginning. They are one of the oldest AR manufacturers. I believe another that is to military specs is Bushmaster. By the way Colt makes a police model of the AR 15 that is supposed to be 100 percent military specs. I'm sure there is some specification program as all the parts have to be interchangeable. | |||
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I think you'll find this with 90% of AR-15 uppers and lowers. With a set of calipers you're likely to find some minor dimensional differences in non-critical areas, here and there, but to the naked eye, there's not much in it [large pin Colts excepeted]. Internals may vary a little more, but again, most AR-15s are like Lego sets, which is their main attraction. Of course, billet uppers and lowers are a different kettle 'o fish. Albatross. | |||
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CMT/Stag and Bushmaster do not make mil spec firearms. | |||
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Mil Spec refers to acceptable for military use. It's not a magic rating. The AR-15 and M1911 are both copied by various makers. Not all copies are submitted for military contract but most are interchangeable unless the are made for a purpose, like the LMT rail and upper. Does LAR make the Remington receivers also? DPMS/Bushmaster/Remington are Freedom Arms. A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work. | |||
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Stag is the commercial outlet of CMT who is Continental Machine & Tool. They have made the Colts from day one. They are one of the oldest AR15/M16 manufacturers. Colt has mil spec rifle so that means CMT made them. Bushmaster has at a time supplied M16's to the military. I would say they were mil spec, wouldn't you? If you don't believe CMT does mil spec look at their home page: http://www.continentalmachinetool.com/ | |||
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Remington just sells them, they don't make them. DPMS and Bushmaster were bought and incorporated into the Freedom Arms cicle so that they would have AR15's and AR10's. If LAR was making them before they are more then likely still making receivers for them. | |||
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Their products don't meet the specification and would not pass inspection for acceptance. | |||
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While several companies have produced parts for Colt they do not maintain a copy of the schematics, are forbidden by contract from using Colt supplied data in sales to entities other than Colt, and even then Colt makes most of the parts in house. Furthermore several manufacturers produce multiple grades of product for sales to other manufacturers, so knowing the name of the subcontractor isn't the greatest way of knowing the specification of the product. Furthermore, Bushmaster produced fewer than 200 weapons for the military in the early 1990s, before the M4 was type classified. They do not have access to the technical data package for the M4 Carbine and consistently use sub standard parts. I know of one federal agency that bought Bushmasters instead of Colts one year to save money and shit canned them within months for failures. There are companies that compare well with Colt. BCM, LMT, etc. | |||
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I've got a follow up question for SmokinJ or anyone else. Who makes the barrels, upper receivers for JSE Surplus and Model "1" Sales?  Thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge.  Dan Take your children hunting and you won't be hunting for your children. | |||
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From the low price JSE sales their complete uppers and barrels I wouldn't expect top of the line parts. Barrels start at around $95 so what do you think you are actually going to get for that price? I don't know who makes their products, but Model 1 says on their website for some of the barrels that they are E.R. Shaw. I bought a barrel from DPMS for a 7.62x39 and it was made by Wilson Barrels, not the Wilson that makes custom 1911's. | |||
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Think about what you said there. If some companies makes parts for Colt you better damn well believe they DO have the blue prints to make them by. I don't know where you got that information, but it is incorrect. | |||
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As I understand it, the prints are sent back to Colt at the completion of the contract. They wouldn't have a full set anyway, just a specification and set of sheets for the product they were building. In any case, Colt currently subcontracts relatively few parts. Also, when Bushmaster made weapons for the government the TDP for the M4 wasn't complete and the weapon hadn't been accepted for use. They only made a few hundred anyway, and I've never met anyone who has seen them. | |||
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Colt and the Army made an agreement that they can share the TDP with whoever to fill their needs to supply the necessary amount of firearms to Army. I believe the time period on the M16 has expired so the it doesn't go back to Colt. The M4 is probably close to that time limit. At any rate that information is available to just about anyone. As to whether that is legal or not I cannot answer. I know FN makes M16's, not sure if they do any M4's, but doesn't Daniel Defense make some M4's? | |||
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I'm pretty sure if you crossed a Stag with a Colt you'd get an antlered mule. | |||
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At this point the TDP for both IIRC has reverted to the Army but others will have to pay a licensing fee to use it. In any case once a contract is completed the drawings are returned to the owner. Of course the data floats out, so it's not a complete secret. No one but Colt has made M4s for the Army, though others have provided uppers or parts. DD makes uppers for MK18 and M4A1 Block II rifles. | |||
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Ryan, I guess you've never seen an M4 carbine with the FN logo on it??? | |||
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Remember that Mil-Spec is the minimum acceptable quality. Many manufacturers make their products to better than Mil-Spec quality. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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That's true and many make theirs below mil spec. | |||
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