I'm looking for some assistance. Back in March I had quite a scare, A house fire the nearly destroyed everything. Stupid me had only a security safe with no fire rating. Thankfully smoke & water (rust) damage was the extent. A gunsmith friend of mine spent 50+ hours cleaning and reblueing.

I'm planning on building or buying a gun safe. Insurance fell short by over $300,000! So I need to construct my safe/vault with economy in mind. My biggest concern is fire & water, then theft. I'm in a low crime area.

Any help is greatly appreciated

I had the same fears,so this is what I did;

Invested in the biggest 1 1/2 hr. safe I could afford...

Bought a Liberty scratch and dent(actually just a minor scratch).

Then in a corner of my shop,Framed a 6 x 8 closet.2 layers of 5/8 fire rated sheet rock inside and out.Plastic in each layer.Add a fire proof door,with dead bolt.

This gives me 2 levels of protection.

And enough space to store all the extra stuff.Slings,ammo,bow....

I've also built a fire proof block vault for a customer who purchased a door only from Cannon safes.

Cieling was fire rock,but I still had to sheet rock the walls to make it look nice...

Dan

Draftandy,

don't know if this will help but this is what I did.
A few years ago I built a new house. When I built the house I had a concrete porch approx 9'wide by 18' ft. long poured. the support walls were extended down to the level of the basement. So what I ended up with is a vault room. 8 inch thick walls all the around and a concrete roof. I added a steel vault door(similar to a gun safe) which you can order from any steel gunsafe maker----mine is a Fort Knox door.

you access the vault from the basement, hidden by a closet.

I know you are not building a new house but if you are able to maybe add on, you could do something similar.

Where my valt room is essentially at ground level and outside of the main house(but attached), it is very fire safe and water secure. I also insulated and added a de-humidifier vent and a seperate electric wall heater.

The de-humidifier pumps air out through a 4" inch vent if moisture builds up and the heater also controls the temp. to help control moisture-------no rusting of the guns

Call some locksmith shops.
Used safes sell for very little and sometimes the old ones can't even be given away. These days, most corporations and places that require up to date security only want safes that have the newer electronic locking mechanisms.
You may be able to get an older safe with the rating you desire for a very low cost or if lucky, for the effort to cart it wway.
The caution is: Some older safes utilized asbestos as a fireproofing material. These are more often not as heavy but there's no outward indicator. From the late 1800s till beyond the "60s concrete or Gypsum was often used.
Be aware that moving a safe may be a challenge due to weight. Worst case scenario is when it's in a basement or up on a second floor with no elevator.

Just do a search on Vault doors and you well get all kinds of info Iam most likely going to buy the standard valut door form smithsecureitysafes. out of ohio seems like a good one for the right price. there are many ways of building fire break in resistance walls.

I built one that is very similar to the one quickshot described. Inside that concrete room I put in two commercial gun safes and shelves all around the room for bullets.

I also added a gun rack for 12 guns and use it for guns that need to be cleaned.

Be sure to make it big enough that it is a safe room for your family.

Take a hard look at Sturdy Safes.

Great equipment and great people to deal with.

www.sturdysafe.com

If you have the room, then build a concrete vault with a safe door. This may not be possible with your house as you must consider the foundation, as well as your floor plan: however, if you can then this will be your best option

Here's a safe I purchased www.visaliasafes.com check out their lined safes that will withstand 2300 degrees

Graffunder. There is no substitute...

It sounds like if you're building one you just want a vault door, correct?

I'm in the same boat. I'd like to have room to walk into it.

Standard vaults, while excellent, fill up over time, and it's nice to have the extra room to put any and all valuables in over time.

If you've got the room, put block up and firewall it all around. If you're not moving anytime soon that's what I'd do. And if it comes time to sell, that security would be a nice plus in my book.

I needed a gun safe to but wanted something a little biger. so i baught a browning vault door instaled under basment stairway built inner walls poured 1st then set up top pour 4" under stair risers after concrete is set your stairway is super solid and you have a walk in gun safe that ads to your home value and helps your home owners ins.

I realize that people have to work with what they have available as far as space goes, etc but IMO building a gun room/vault in a basement or anywhere below grade is not a good option if any other is available. Floods, backed up sewage, broken water pipes, hot water heaters without pans, a toilet that floods when no one is home, etc can create a real problem. If you have a fire, and the vault is in the basement, it is possible that just the water put on it by the fire department may cause damage. No solution covers every possiblity but why invite trouble IF an optional location is available?

I am in the process of buying a couple of medium sized safes to fit snugly into a confined space etc.

Safes will deter / defeat the "in and out" thieves / burgulars, however, to my mind, they will not stop a professional thief with the knowledge, skills and tools etc.

The worst part, as I see it, is criminals do not need to know how to open the safe: "Tiger kidnapping".

In the context of the UK, and Republic of Ireland (Eire), "Tiger kidnapping" is where the criminals take the bank manager, or key holders families hostage and get the responsible person to open the safe / disarm the security system.

In our increasingly violent society, and due to better security systems on expensive cars etc, criminals just break into a house when the occupants are home / asleep etc and force them to open safes, give them the car keys, security pin numbers etc, etc.

I think keeping a low profile and not drawing attention to yourself,i.e. not wearing expensive clothes, watches, jewellery, or having a performance car, and, best of all, keeping your mouth shut, are amongst the best security you can have.

Wife's friend put the safes on a concrete pad added onto the "playroom". They built walls out of CMU, rebar, and filled the CMU as they went. They then installed a vault door. The safes will not fit through the door and only one can be opened at a time. The safes are on wheels. I think there is a step up to get into the "vault".

With 150+ firearms I needed to build Fort Wallace 4m x 2.5m, 16 ton of concrete, 380lb steel door

Blue steel against concrete makes me cringe...

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
Blue steel against concrete makes me cringe...

Yeah, my reaction exactly. I get upset when the gun shop sets out a piece on the glass topped display counter.

You solution to a "gun safe" is to buy adequate insurance. Most underwriters provide some coverage under house/fire policies. But they're typically limited to $2,500.00 total or $2,500 maximum for one gun.

I checked with my policy and find that optics on firearms are not considered "firearms" and accordingly covered by insurance just like binoculars or you stereo.

When you get past your policy limits, you need to buy coverage in "per thousand" units. Have the guns appraised, photographed, listed/itemized, and then purchase coverage according to your collection value.

I have a 1 1/2 hr safe. Insurance is a huge hassle, but it's the way to get coverage that a fire safe can't provide -- short of a concrete, cinder block building with nothing flammable in it.

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
Blue steel against concrete makes me cringe...

That was only a temp arrangement, properly mounted in nice polished timber racks now.

Insurance quotes were getting well into the 4 figures $ value

Mr. Wallace -

Am I correct in assuming that Ft. Wallace has rebar in all those 8x8x16 blocks and is then grouted solid? Ditto the ceiling? If not an electric saw and/or an 8 lb. Sledge will create handy keys.... For burglar proofing, I'd also consider a 150+ decibel horn in a small conrcete entryway, together with a large CN/CS "bomb".

That's the way one of my friends who owned a concrete block company in Phoenix, AZ built his...inside it he also had a microwave, a sink, a TV, a pot-bellied wood stove(properly vented), several very small forced air AC/heating ducts & vents, electrical outlets, and a large rocking chair with foot stool. He used rugs made of animal pelts to make it not too harsh in appearance, and had two walls of nothing but racks for rifles stood vertically. He liked to be able to look at his "pets". The other two walls had work benches.

His very modest looking house was "L" shaped, with the walk-in vault as a stand alone building inside the "L"...totally invisible from off the property, and so overgrown with grape vines, etc., that it almost wasn't recognizable as anything except a concrete walled shed from ON the property.

I used to sit in there occasionally to swap lies with him. It was a real nice spot for an old-timers fat-chewing contest.....