1/4" 5 shot groups .... just amazing ! Statisically impossible but still amazing given that a bullet with a .154 caliber center to center group basis would have to land all in .25". that's a center to center variance of +-.10 ..... amazing. Know quite a few guys who shoot Hunter Benchrest with rigs that cost twice as much as any ANIB M 70 sporter, with custom scopes, special many 100 dollar dies, prepared cases and bullets etc, who would kill for a rifle that delivered 1/4" groups day in and day out. The problem with BSing to make a point is you have to be careful how far out on the limb you go.Even my Bull Gun with seriously anal prepared loads is a .6 MOA rifle and it has been to Perry twice.
I think I have owned 4 maybe 5 pre 64 M 70s in 06 and 300 H&H. "As issued" they were 1.5 MOA rifles which will kill anything an responsible hunter would shoot at. One of the 300s would get under 1 MOA with SMKs and a 10X Unertl with ammo prep like a benchrest shooter does.

Even the high grade CZs far outshine any M 70 to ever leave New Haven. Only after seeing the new FN M 70s was it clear just how crude and poorly finished the pre 64s were. But you enjoy them, heck I even know people who collect Remington 700 Classics which, from 10 feet away, ALL look the same.(and are inferior to 721s, 722s and 725s)
Winchester never did get "the wood thing" right, where as on occasion Remington sure did. Here's a bone stock 721 B grade in 06 (stock refinished after 50 years) that has wood you might see on a Pigeon Grade M 12 ..... but never on a 70. Remington screwed up as it deserves to be on a Premier Grade 721.



As for those "rare calibers", dollar to a dime they are all fakes being moved by you know who through another outlet.
Regardless of chambering, faked or real, they are not and never will be the world's finest magazine rifle. You really need to see some really fine magazine rifles from the classic custom makers or todays top grade semi customs.

My bone stock M70 in 300H&H will shoot my casual reloads with 4831 and 168gr Ballistic Tip into 3/4" all day long, I've shot groups smaller and the rifle is more accurate than I am.

If you're only getting .6moa out of a target gun I think it's time for a new barrel, loads, or something because you should be able to do better than that. Quarter inch groups are hard to do but quite possible. probably not all the time, and the poster said that he coulsn't do it all the time, but they are possible.

Sure a factory made M70 will not compare to a custom built $20,000 rifle but what's your point? And it's funny that many of those ultra high end cutoms use either a M70 action or a copy of a M70 action? Trying to compare a M70 to a 721? Sorry but a pretty stock wrapped around some water pipe built into a rifle action doesn't even come close to a M70!

I always liked the warm reddish walnut stock that Winchester used in bygone times. Winchester did make some nice stocks! I have a African that I've owned for 25 years. The gun is pictured in the Rule book. It features a very fancy grade stock. Yes, at the end of production the early 1960's guns did go through some cost cutting. This includes smaller checkering patterns, plastic butt plates, and lighter colored walnut stocks. They do not compare with the earlier rifles.

Well folks, I suppose we are going to agree to disagree. No point in us getting into a big flaming contest. Some of the comments made are just very tempting, but it will gain none of us anything. So let's call it a win win and enjoy what we like. Okay ?

I could not of said it better 45-70 shooter. Good luck with you collecting, and shooting.

I paid less than $400 for my 1960 Winchester Model 70 CRF in .300H&H :-)

This was around a year or so ago.

Vicvnab, I can only assume you have never owned any interwar Oberndorf commercial Mauser.
Let's get specific.
The safety was not designed for scoped rifles so I'll give you that one, although later FNs had fine safeties (for folks who knew enough to not pull the trigger while unloading).

The coned breech is far inferior to the full support given by a Mauser.

The trigger was far better being a two stage that could be adjusted (stoned) down to 2 pounds with no danger. The old M 70 was a fine single stage trigger, but still single stage and the new FN one is a needlessly complex POS.
You could also get a double set trigger in a Mauser that is both safe and can be set to ounces.

The model 70 wood was just crap compared with Mauser's European walnut.

The bolt release on the Mauser is virtually impossible to activate by accident, so I fail to see any superiority in a little button that can be easily thumbed at the wrong time.

Then we have action choices. With the 70 back then you got one that was modified to work with anything from a 22 Hornet to a 375 H&H. Mauser made at least five different action lengths from a "Kurtz" (the action alone today costs more than any M 70, If you can find a real one) to a true magnum Square bridge Mauser.

M 70s are nice. I own one of the last New Haven CF Featherwights in 270 and it's a very nice rifle, but if anyone want to swap even up for this 7x57 Oberndorf commercial action based Mauser. sitting up at Griffin and Howe, drop me a note.

Everyone reading this thread needs to know that 45-70 shooter and artshaw are one and the same. He has been kicked off of 24 hour campfire and was banned here as 45-70 shooter. He has recently posted more than 150 times in less than 30 days as artshaw. He is likely going to be banned from AR for the second time. His real name is Larry Root. He has no credibility, is argumentative and post pictures not his own.

Mike, thanks for trying to throw up a smoke screen that has nothing to do with the topic.

The Mauser pictured is not mine, as the posting says.

As for your other allegation, you are only parroting what you read from some liar. Why don't you supply links to photos of firearms I have posted which I claimed were mine that you can prove are not ?

I came to this site to escape childish trolls as I was told by many friends that it was for adults and well moderated. Apparently you advocate the:
" I don't like em', ban em" approach to other members.

The number of posts someone makes is hardly important as long as they are not "flaming" another member as your post does to me.

Adults can agree to disagree and still display courtesy.

The only people on this site that appear to want me banned are just migrants from the other site who are carrying on a three year vendetta.

The reason 45-70 shooter was banned here was ONLY because of the spillover from the other site.

In an effort to avoid any repeat of that, I have put them on ignore. I am trying to put them behind me and have no intention of cluttering up this site with responses to them.

I would respectfully suggest you are falling for the lies of a few troublemakers who have NO evidence to support their numerous lies.
If you wish to send me a PM, that you will keep between us, I'll be happy to recap the whole history for you.

Thank You, Larry

So, you admit you have already been banned from other websites and also from AR as 45-70 shooter.

Why all the AKAs if you are so sincere? I do not engage in PMs with trolls, I out them publicly in the interest of keeping AR viable and uncluttered with FUD. I will not engage with you further, but will continue to inform others of your undesirable presence on AR whenever I find your posts.

Uh, Mike I think that is what I said, do I need to repeat it.

Insofar as Pms go, you are violating site rules because YOU are in charge. If you wish to I suppose you cannot be stopped. YOU, not me is pirating the thread and telling lies.

Now on your accusation that I post photos of rifles that I claim belong to me that do not.....

Are you going to put up or shut up ?

We'll all be waiting for the links to the photos of the guns "not mine but claimed to be".

Somehow I believe the screen will be blank.

BTW, I have probably been an NRA Life Member longer than you and was far too well informed to ever want to go to Parris Island.