As with other gun collectors, I am concerned with the possibl theft of my long guns and have decided to buy a gunsafe. There seems to be a wide variety of quality and sizes, not to mention prices. One question that is holding me up is just how many guns a given safe will really hold. Speaking now of rifles, a common size seems to hold 23 but nowhere does it explain 23 what? Are these rifles without scopes, or with scopes. or with target-type exterior adjustable mounts, etc. Anyone have any experience with how to figure out what a given safe will hold?

Thanks.

I've got 2 Brownings,Both are said to hold 44 or 48 guns each. Don't believe it. The companies all claim they can hold more than they actually can. I think they must use a BB gun as there source for a gun. Figure on about 1/2 of what they say. Larger rifles and scoped rifles take up alot more room. I bought the dial locks and maybee should have bought at least one with the electronic lock. I have a hard time remembering one combo, let alone two. Just make sure your safe is fireproof. The ratings are on the inside of the doors, on most. Good Luck

If a safe is represented to hold "24 guns", that usually means that it has slots for 24 standing long guns. For shotguns, that's no problem. Scoped, bolt action rifles tend to take up more space both fore-aft and laterally, so you may not be able to get 24 rifles in 24 slots (opening the bolts on the rifles is one trick to fit them into a slightly smaller space). On the other hand, I have a couple of smaller safes that will actually allow a few extra guns to be sandwiched between the spaces.

Many safes are convertable, with about half the safe set up for long guns and half with shelving. The shelving can usually be removed to allow additional long gun space, thus they may be represented as something like 12/24 gun safes.

Most people think in terms of having one large safe to hold all of their guns. I prefer the idea of having more and smaller safes. Having multiple safes makes it less likely that all of your collection will be accessed by a miscreant. It is also generally easier to find locations within your house for a smaller rather than a larger safe. A safe that is installed in a coat closet so that only the door is accessable is more burglar resistant than one sitting out in the room where the burglar can quickly cut open the 12-guage metal of the safe body with a 7" metal saw.

Take a look at the safes made by Sturdy Safe

www.sturdysafe.com

I have a liberty safe, but my uncle used to work for Diebold and went over all the ins and outs. I see the safe as a fire protector and deterrent. A seasoned thief would have no problem getting into most.

One thing is don't "spin" the dial, just turn it. Spinning is not good for wear on the usual
gun safes.

Luckily, most assholes breaking in are in and out very quickly. They'll see the safe and move on.

Make sure to memorize your combination and don't keep it in your home.

Also, the bigger the safe the better. You want room so rifles aren't dinged and scratched coming in and out over time. You can get caddies to hang on the door for pistols so they don't take up much space...

I bought a fairly cheap safe, but like I said it's fireproof and a deterrent, which is good enough for me for now.

Zanotti Armour has an idea I like better with each year that passes. The safe can be taken apart into walls and door (and floor) so you can move it around with a dolly and one man. Might want to google them.

As said, the average crook is "high" and in a hurry for something to fence for the next fix. Home safes are not worth much to someone clear headed and with time.

And as said the rating is for a shotgun type weapon with no scope...

So with your "box" to delay, add more problems like lead or shot or other scrap in the bottom to make it that much harder to move. And a laptop with camera set to trigger from some odd corner if it is bothered... Even if they get in and take something you have pictures... They hate that... Luck. Happy trails.

Lads,

I used to help a friend w/a gun shop sell safes. We sold Fort Knox and I have great faith in them. Very solid.

Here are several things to keep in mind (from my own experience and that of those who bought safes from us).

1. The safe you buy will ultimately be TOO SMALL!! Not only must it hold guns, but family valuables, jewels, papers, etc. Ask the wife!!!
2. Do NOT overlook fireproofing!! Check the ratings - again, Fort Knox is excellent.
3. Use some form of moisture control. Safes are not air tight and may trap moisture.
4. Beware of safes w/external hinges. I have been told they are less secure. Sure, criminals will not have time to torch off the hinges, but if they think they can w/time, they might try to carry it off. Just a thought.
5. IMHO, a gun safe is the best "accessory" one can own - buy a big one!!!

Mike

Keep in mind that if you do get burglarizied, that those turds might come back (and might bring their friends this time) and try a home invasion to get you to open the thing to get to your goodies!

Having sold safes and owned many--
In a heavy fire safe-- good buy- Security Products
http://www.securityproducts1.c...fes/Safe_Compare.htm

For the disassembling movable safe--Zanotti
http://www.zanottiarmor.com/

"Pretty" safes your wife will be more likely to approve- Browning, Fort Knox

or you can have a plain one one Faux Finished to match a room as I once did, and another one built in to walnut cabinets

A few years ago the American Rifleman did a review of the brand names...Cannon Safes came out the winner.

In case you're the DIY type like me, Browning makes vault doors you install on your dedicated gun room. Door and frame weighs ~600# so not like a Zanotti.

quote:

4. Beware of safes w/external hinges. I have been told they are less secure. Sure, criminals will not have time to torch off the hinges, but if they think they can w/time, they might try to carry it off. Just a thought.

With external hinged safe doors, the hinge is just that -- a hinge. It is not a part of the locking mechanism; there are locking bolts behind the hinge so that torching the hinges off does nothing to help you gain access to the interior. However, I think your point may be that an unsophisticated theif may assume that if he is able to transport the safe to some place where he has time to torch off the hinges he is encouraged to do so. Good point, making it doubly important to secure a safe with external hinges to a concrete floor.

One advantage of a quality safe with an external hinge is that the door will open 180%.

There isn't much difference in most brand name safes, just a LOT of advertising claiming to be the best. If you really want a safe get something like a Graffunder and be prepared to pay for it. The external hinge thing is mute if it's built well just more advertising by the internal hinge guys. I think something like a Graffunder is over kill in many situations and didn't go that route though. But if money wasn't a issue they can't be beat.

quote:

With external hinged safe doors, the hinge is just that -- a hinge. It is not a part of the locking mechanism; there are locking bolts behind the hinge so that torching the hinges off does nothing to help you gain access to the interior. However, I think your point may be that an unsophisticated theif may assume that if he is able to transport the safe to some place where he has time to torch off the hinges he is encouraged to do so. Good point, making it doubly important to secure a safe with external hinges to a concrete floor.

Actually, in the Columbus, OH area in the last few months there have been at least 2 thefts of entire safes. Having a really heavy safe in a basement bolted to the floor would probably be the most secure as long as you're sure you will never have a flooded basement.

quote:

Actually, in the Columbus, OH area in the last few months there have been at least 2 thefts of entire safes. Having a really heavy safe in a basement bolted to the floor would probably be the most secure as long as you're sure you will never have a flooded basement.

I don't have a basement, but when I built my house I both built the safe into the framing (encased it) AND bolted it to the concrete floor. It is about as unhandy as I could make it for a miscreant, though given enough time and resources, we must recognize that even Fort Knox itself is not theft-proof.

Go to "you tube" and take a look at gunsafe videos.

1. For a bit of extra gun room take the bolts out of bolt actions.

2. For even more room mount your scopes with GOOD STURDY quick release rings and store bolts and scopes on a shelf or the safe floor.

3. Bolt the safe to the floor in a closet. Makes it harder to get "at" the safes walls and door. If you don't want to bolt it to the floor (or the wall studs) get a piece of plywood or subflooring the same size as the closet floor and bolt the safe to that. Makes it harder to move and "get at" as well.

4. Do the plywood/subfloor thing and wall bolting if the safe is in a garage and you can't bolt it to the floor but leave the sheets full size. Makes it harder to move/carry off.

5. As mentioned get a bigger safe, 500 lbs (and up). If a guy can lift and move a 500 lb safe and you don't have a gun ('cause it's in the safe) let him have the damn safe. But he probably won't get very far with it.

quote:

Do the plywood/subfloor thing and wall bolting if the safe is in a garage and you can't bolt it to the floor

???
Concrete is the preferred floor to bolt to. Use concrete anchors (the largest diameter that your safe's bolt holes will accept). They are available at any home improvement store, as is the masonry drill bit you'll need to bore the holes in the concrete.

The door is usually the most entry-resistant portion of the safe. If you can limit (easy) access to the safe sides and top as by placing the safe in a tightly fitting closet, it serves as a futher theft deterrent. Let me assure you, it doesn't take long to saw out a section of 12 gauge safe wall large enough to remove guns with a 7" angle grinder or a simple skilsaw equipped with a metal blade. And you've thoughtfully provided the convenient electrical outlet and extension cord for your guns' new owner.

Just get a Graffunder and sleep happily ever after...

Homebrewer: I'm not familiar with the Graffunder. What makes its walls resistant to being metal-sawed?

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Do the plywood/subfloor thing and wall bolting if the safe is in a garage and you can't bolt it to the floor

???
Concrete is the preferred floor to bolt to. Use concrete anchors (the largest diameter that your safe's bolt holes will accept). They are available at any home improvement store, as is the masonry drill bit you'll need to bore the holes in the concrete.

The door is usually the most entry-resistant portion of the safe. If you can limit (easy) access to the safe sides and top as by placing the safe in a tightly fitting closet, it serves as a futher theft deterrent. Let me assure you, it doesn't take long to saw out a section of 12 gauge safe wall large enough to remove guns with a 7" angle grinder or a simple skilsaw equipped with a metal blade. And you've thoughtfully provided the convenient electrical outlet and extension cord for your guns' new owner.

Or with a 110V plasma cutter from Harbor Freight. Fire-resistant safes offer a level of protection from that.

quote:

Or with a 110V plasma cutter from Harbor Freight.

Any type of cutter (including sawzalls and oxy-acetyline torches) may possibly damage the contents of the safe. However, the thief is counting on SOME of the safe contents coming out intact. The plasma cutter or acetyline torch may set the whole house afire, so even the most cavalier of thieves are reluctant to use them since alerting the fire department is one of the things they would like not to do.

To discourage sawing/cutting, has anyone considered gluing concrete board (like tile backer/underlayment) to the outside of your safe? Looks like that stuff would, like the gyp board inside the fire safe, make a thief's life more complicated as well as add fire resistance. Nice 'n ugly, too!

quote:

Originally posted by 510wells:
1. For a bit of extra gun room take the bolts out of bolt actions.

2. For even more room mount your scopes with GOOD STURDY quick release rings and store bolts and scopes on a shelf or the safe floor.

I agree.

By doing these things I can use every "slot" in the safe.

Removing bolts and QD scopes also lessens the chance that I will accidentally "ding" a rifle or gun when taking one out of or putting it back into the safe. (I HATE it when that happens!)

As for which brand to buy, I think that this firm offers a lot for the money.

Sportsman Steel Gun Safes

quote:

Homebrewer: I'm not familiar with the Graffunder. What makes its walls resistant to being metal-sawed?

The walls are made of multi-layered steel that is 1" thick here and 1-1/2" thick there. If you want to spend more money and have the floor to support it, they can build it with even thicker walls.

http://www.graffundersafes.com...ts/safes-weapon.html

Check out the two-minute video and the pics in their Gallery...

quote:

The walls are made of multi-layered steel that is 1" thick here and 1-1/2" thick there. If you want to spend more money and have the floor to support it, they can build it with even thicker walls.

I understand now.

My large safe cost me one nice rifle. My smaller safe cost me a more pedestrian rifle. Sounds like the Graffunder might cost you a whole collection. But I know a guy who buys another $25,000-$50,000 double gun every one to two months. I suppose the Graffunder would make sense for someone in his class.

I have a Liberty and it is 30" wide. It is 10 years old and I have detected a settling of the door where I believe the fire resistance is compromised. The door appears to be tilting. My contact with Liberty was less than fruitfull and I would not buy another Liberty safe. I would go another direction. In fact, I believe instead of buying a large 30 gun safe, I would buy two medium size safes.

+1 on Zanotti

And make sure not to store the tools needed to defeat a safe next to the safe.

A friend had a safe in his shop......and next to it were his air tools, compressor, torch......

I pointed out his error to him one day.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
And make sure not to store the tools needed to defeat a safe next to the safe.

A friend had a safe in his shop......and next to it were his air tools, compressor, torch......

I pointed out his error to him one day.

It would also be good to locate your safe more than a 50-foot extension cord's reach from the nearest 110VAC outlet.

For maximum security

(1) select a TRTL-30 rated jewelers safe

(2) place in a hard-to-find spot in your home or business

(3) keep quite about it

(4) augment with an electronic alarm system

(5) or keep your valuables in a commercial bank vault

I have a Sentry 24 gun and a 14 gun, neither of which hold that many. So I took all the guts out. With bolts removed I can easily get 30 in the 24 and 20 in the 14. FS

I have two Cannon safes, all things being equal, I'm pretty happy with them. However, like someone said earlier, bigger is better.

just have a reputable contractor put a 12X12 cinder block addition on your shop or garage end. Stand up racks around two sides = 100 long guns. The old leather couch your wife hates and wants to replace goes on one side opposite the bank vault door you bought and had hung. One of those cute little 3 cubic foot refrigerators and a small battery-operated UPC big enough to kick start an electric generator that will run things. Humidor, and your cell phone, and a couple bottles of 1924 and tonic water... Mine's 14x21.

Now, where was I?

Rich

Picking up my first safe this weekend at Tractor Supply, a Cannon listed for 36 long guns plus 2 shelves, on sale for $899. It's a lightweight model, 60x40x24, 700lbs and only 30 min. fire rating. But everything I've read about safes in a fire state that though they may prevent the guns from actually catching fire the heat will ruin the stocks anyway and then it's insurance claim time.
Mine will be in a basement, the entire house is alarmed, no chance of flooding. Even if the police take 20 min. to respond, they won't be out of the basement yet with 700 lbs of safe and 300lbs. of content.