Hi all,

Could anyone tell me where to find information about the history and production of the Winchester 1911 shotgun? That was the first semi-auto shotgun by Winchester and not a huge success, thanks to Browning Auto-5 already covering the market at the time. Any good links or literature hints would be appreciated. Thank you.

The fact that it wasn't a huge success wasn't just due to the fact that the Auto-5 had a good bit of market share. The model 11 Winchester IMO was always really ratchety in function. In addition I don't think that the knurled grip area on the barrel for cocking the gun was ever very popular (for understandable reasons). I think that also probably got someone shot at some point. Let me know if you track down some literature on it. I know a fair amount about it, but I don't know any central place like a book that talks about it, although I'm sure it's out there.

What you want is a copy of Ronald Stadt's book:
"Winchester Shotguns and Shotshells: From the Hammer Double to the Model 59" - tells you more than you will ever want know. I'll post up a little bit from what I know. With Browning's patents on the A5 to contend with and with Remington putting the Remington Mod 11 into licensed production, Winchester was in a rush to get an autoloader on the market and the Winchester Model 11 was the result. It was charged via the knurled section of the barrel because J. Browning had a patent for the bolt handle as found on the A5, etc. Old John Moses must have been shrewd and perhaps mad because Wichester wanted to buy the A5 patents outright and he wanted a royalty for each one produced.
Anyway, the Winchester Mod 11 had problems as witnessed by The Standard Catalog of Firearms which has this to say about the Winchester Model 1911: "Because of the hurry in getting the model ready for production, the shotgun demonstrated design weakness and never proved satisfactory. It was discontinued in 1925 with about 83,000 guns sold." It was Winchesters first attemp at a semo-auto and it certainly wasn't their best. It had over 50 design changes in the first 3 years of production and function was always 'iffy.'
Hope some of this helps.

Thank you guys, that was good info!

I came across one in a collection, right next to half a dozen Auto 5's. The knurled section of the barrell and the "missing" bolt handle got my attention and I got interested.

According to the Winchester production number data it was built in 1912 and is in very good condition, but I guess it's not a good idea to shoot it, though.

I can't think of any reason why you couldn't shoot it if the gun is functioning. However if it's a really good specimen it might be worth having just for collectors purposes. They were certainly an interesting shotgun. In addition to the omission of a bolt handle and the knurled barrel, the front sight was also drawn up out of the barrel rather than screwed or soldered on.

Interestingly enough, Winchester paid for the patents to be drawn up and processed by the company lawyers. They were so thorough, in fact, that later Thomas Crossley Johnson, who designed the Model 1911 and Model 1912, joked that it took him ten years to circumvent the patents. This is the guy who became the lead firearms designer for Winchester from 1905 to 1930, though is little known for his work.