I just recently bought one and they are legal in my state. What is the Max amount of yards it would be good starting out at with 350 ft per second. Right now I have it Sighted in at 30 yds. I was thinking 50yds. Does anybody else shoot a CrossBow?

I'd keep it to 30 yards or less. I have a crossbow, and I'm not that fond of the things.

350 fps isn't that fast, between pulling the trigger and arrow impact there is a lot that can happen. the animal can move, the wind can gust, etc. I'd say that anyone can get within 30 yards of an animal, if you can't you need to work on your hunting skills rather than just shooting further.

If you haven't bow hunted before you'll have a pretty steep learning curve, it's not like rifle hunting simply because you hold it like a rifle. Also it's just plain easy for a deer to jump the string at 50 yards, coupled with the "noisiness" that lots of crossbows exibit, you're just looking for trouble.

Hunting with arrows isn't about asking how far you can shoot but how close you can get.

the chef

Those short little bolts go fast but they drop very quickly past 30 steps. Mine is sighted in for 20 yards. I hunt off of stands in thickets with a small opening where shots are always close. Merg

I've shot a bunch of them, from 150lb to the 200lb xbows. I've taken deer out to 40 yards with no fuss. Past that, I don't shoot. With an initial velocity of 350 fps, 40 yards is a prudent maximum. You can shoot farther, but tradjectory becomes rather anemic at those distances. JMHO

GD

Thanks for the Info. Crossbow hunting is all new to me. SO I'll keep at 30 yds.

Got my farthest deer to date this year with my 200lb exocet, ranged at 63 yards. That said, I wouldnt recommend it. Doe was quartering away from me slightly and looking away, I aimed for the lungs and I can hold 4" groups at 60 yards so accuracy is not a problem. By the time the arrow got there she had turned away and it entered her rear leg, not far from the anus, shattered the femur and continued all the way into the lungs, there was no exit wound but she still made it about 150 yards before expiring. Deer arent that hard to get close to so from now on I will wait for a better shots.

One thing you should remember, the speed of light is much faster than the speed of sound, if at all possible dont shoot at a deer that is looking at you or even in your direction, wait for them to look away and the arrow will be half way there before they hear the shot.

So why do so many states not allow them?

Most states do not allow crossbows because of the archaic mentality of those politicians who created the hunting regulations. They believe in the myth that a crossbow is a 200yd, deathly quiet,super accurate, rifle style bow.

They also are swayed the the vast majority of vertical bow hunters and firearm hunters who believe the same way and do not want crossbows legalized frop hunting. The majority pretty much rules.

I see no advantage to crossbows. They are heavy, noisey and 'big'. More power to those who think they are better. For them maybe they are.

I like my old wheelie bow. I can get two arrows off it before a crossbow could be reloaded.

what is the penetration like on a cross bow compared to a bow of similar poundage

Hard to compare a vertical bow with a crossbow. MOst all decent crossbows are 150lb -175lb draw weight with some going as high as 225lb. The arrows are shorter and sometimes a bit heavier.
On whitetail deer sized animals and black bear I get 100% pass thru with my 175lb draw weight CB. When I shot a vertical bow that was 70lb draw weight I normally got complete pass thru also.

JRO45, I have a crossbow also. I am a bow hunter and due to several shoulder surgeries I was able to get a crossbow permit in Delaware.

The crossbow has no more advantage over a compound bow, keep your shots at 30 yards max.

I worked real hard to get back to shooting my compound bow, the crossbow is a pain in the ass as far as I am concerned. Just to bulky for woods carry and very heavy. But it was great because when I was injured and recovering from a couple of surgeries I was still able to go bow hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I see no advantage to crossbows. They are heavy, noisey and 'big'. More power to those who think they are better. For them maybe they are.

I like my old wheelie bow. I can get two arrows off it before a crossbow could be reloaded.

+1

I've shot both and consider the vertical compound consistantly more accurate when precision is the object. That said, the xbow is easier to take deer with as there is no movement required before the shot.

I'm having shoulder problems as well and shudder at the thought of being forced to a heavy and cumbersome xbow. If my shoulder problem gets too bad, I'm going lefty instead of xbow.

For those that like xbows, have fun; just know there are many compound shooters that are considerably more accurate.



3 arrow group at 60yds.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I see no advantage to crossbows. They are heavy, noisey and 'big'. More power to those who think they are better. For them maybe they are.

I like my old wheelie bow. I can get two arrows off it before a crossbow could be reloaded.

How true that is..

Sure is refreshing to hear the truth about crossbows in an archery forum!

Due to a junk shoulder, I've been using one for several years.......I'd go back to my Black Widow or a compound if I could......

I try to limit my shots to 25 yards, but have taken one deer at about 30 yards......

The MAJOR advantage to crossbows is that it is a very useful tool in teaching young hunters how to bowhunt. I've got a little brother and sister that started out hunting at a young age. Not that they weren't capable of shooting a bow, but under field conditions, with a big dose of buck fever, it would have been a very bad idea. They have both taken deer with a crossbow, and I credit their success to the ability to use one. Simply phrased, they were able to use equipment that allowed them to have the arrow speed, accuracy, and killing ability they would not have been able to duplicate with a compound. For me, crossbows allow a flexibility to hunt areas with limited cover from the ground, if there aren't any decent trees to hang a stand in. I took my biggest buck with a compound, and I love hunting with it, but there are situations where I'm glad I have the opportunity to use a crossbow. JMHO

gd

Due to a severe injury 4 years ago; which resulted in my left hand being pretty much toast; I had no choice but to go to a crossbow.
I tried everything I could to be able to use a vertical bow, all to no avail.
A crossbow has only one advantage and that is ytou don't have to draw and hold the string back. Other than that, they are fairly heavy and bulky. It's near impossible to recock and get a second shot. They are very accurate but you really don't gain any range over a compound. They aren't any faster than good compound bows. The triggers on 90% are atrocious at best, and take some real getting used to.
That being all said , for me, they work as I have not much other choice, if I want to bow hunt!

Xbows are a great tool for those not able to draw a compound. Before my grandpa passed he was a die hard hunter and enjoyed every extra moment he could have in the woods. I told him he should get a Xbow so he could hunt with me in the early season, so he picked up an early PSE 150lb. The velocities were mild compared to todays bows. I would cock his bow for him for practice and prior to each hunt. I shot the thing quite a bit as well. IMO It was effective out to about 30 yards, but trajectory was not that great and the thing was loud. He took a few deer with it without a problem, all were less than 30 yards. Always pass-thrus. Good tool for those that need it.

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
So why do so many states not allow them?

They are too far removed from archery and should not be legal during any archery only season, IMO. They should be reserved for those w/ disabilities and/or used outside of any special archery season. No healthy adult man or woman should be allowed to use a shoulder/trigger fired mechanical compound w/ optic sights during a bow and arrow only hunt. I find this goes against all principles of fair chase.

I'm of the opinion that some localities where the crossbow has been legalized was the result of officials who caved to the interest of commercial lobby groups. Virginia has legalized the crossbow which I feel was a terrible mistake. The Freedom of Information Act revealed that many of the top officials in Virgina were being catered to expensive private hunts and travel to include hunting trips in Africa by these commercial lobby groups. Those officials have since left office but we will suffer from their policies born from commercialization and greed for generations to come.

GVA

quote:

Originally posted by GaryVA:

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
So why do so many states not allow them?

They are too far removed from archery and should not be legal during any archery only season, IMO. They should be reserved for those w/ disabilities and/or used outside of any special archery season. No healthy adult man or woman should be allowed to use a shoulder/trigger fired mechanical compound w/ optic sights during a bow and arrow only hunt. I find this goes against all principles of fair chase.

I'm of the opinion that some localities where the crossbow has been legalized was the result of officials who caved to the interest of commercial lobby groups. Virginia has legalized the crossbow which I feel was a terrible mistake. The Freedom of Information Act revealed that many of the top officials in Virgina were being catered to expensive private hunts and travel to include hunting trips in Africa by these commercial lobby groups. Those officials have since left office but we will suffer from their policies born from commercialization and greed for generations to come.

GVA

I am glad that is just you opinion and you don't make the rules. lol

But a crossbow has no advantage over a compound bow. Fair chase has nothing to do with the implement on chooses to use. Fair chase has to do with the animals ability to roam freely and not be in an inclosure.

You argument can be used agents compound bow, from people that only shoot long bows or recurve bows.

Here we go!!! I knew this was going to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

quote:

Originally posted by GaryVA:

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
So why do so many states not allow them?

They are too far removed from archery and should not be legal during any archery only season, IMO. They should be reserved for those w/ disabilities and/or used outside of any special archery season. No healthy adult man or woman should be allowed to use a shoulder/trigger fired mechanical compound w/ optic sights during a bow and arrow only hunt. I find this goes against all principles of fair chase.

I'm of the opinion that some localities where the crossbow has been legalized was the result of officials who caved to the interest of commercial lobby groups. Virginia has legalized the crossbow which I feel was a terrible mistake. The Freedom of Information Act revealed that many of the top officials in Virgina were being catered to expensive private hunts and travel to include hunting trips in Africa by these commercial lobby groups. Those officials have since left office but we will suffer from their policies born from commercialization and greed for generations to come.

GVA

I am glad that is just you opinion and you don't make the rules. lol

But a crossbow has no advantage over a compound bow. Fair chase has nothing to do with the implement on chooses to use. Fair chase has to do with the animals ability to roam freely and not be in an inclosure.

You argument can be used agents compound bow, from people that only shoot long bows or recurve bows.

Of course the implement you choose has something to do w/ fair chase. A muzzleloader is a very effective and ethical weapon to harvest game animals, but it would not only be illegal but would be unethical to use during a special archery only season. An ATV is an excellent motorized vehicle to use for transportation, but it would be unethical and is often illegal to use this motorized vehicle to pursue game. This goes completley against the long established fair chase standards that were developed over many years by the men and women who fought to eliminate the domestication and commercialization of our Nations game. They developed hunting into an ethical means to manage this natural wildlife and we were given access to this resource by right of our citizenship. We should not abuse these established principles for the sake of profit or for the sake of mechanical advantage at any cost.

Hunting with a compound is considered hunting w/ archery tackle and therefore is in the spirit of fair chase. Even the use of a self-bow which is in the spirit of archery could be considered unethical if someone used poison tips or field tips on large game. Your chosen impliment and and how it is deployed is part and parcel to fair chase.

GVA

OK I am done, I am not going to get into another pissing contest.

We see it differently.

I shoot two, both because I have to and because I enjoy doing so. While I can consistently hit a softball sized target target at 50 yards, my personally imposed distance is 40 yards, preferably much closer.
Crossbows offer no advantage over modern compound vertical bows. Yes they can be mounted with a minimum of motion. But modern compounds with 80+% let off can be held for well over a minute. And they are as accurate, much less noisy and more maneuverable. Due to the noise of the shot and motion associated with re cocking, I know I'll only get one shot with my x bow.
I hunt accordingly.
The biggest issue with x crossbows and many vertical other archers is their being misunderstood as something they are not. Just yesterday I mentioned I was going to use a x bow for turkeys. A shotgun turkey hunter piped up that it was unfair because they are "more like rifles." I had to laugh. Particularly since he's never even shot one. Another issue is that the other archers want the woods to themselves and are afraid that more archers of any type will decimate the deer herd.

There's been a lot said about x bows being heavy and awkward. Have a look at the new Parker Cyclone. Just 18" wide when cocked and 6.5 lbs.
And 350 fps.

I shoot a crossbow because of shoulder problems but I have also shot and hunted with regular compound bows. There is no practical difference between using a crossbow over a standard compound, energy, velocity, range are nearly identical.

One thing I have been able to do with my crossbow that I didnt do much with a regular bow is hunting from the ground, without a blind. I dont like feeling like Im stuck in a tree and honestly, its boring sitting up there for hours. On the ground I can spot and stalk to intercept deer, while being able to hold still enough for them to move close for a shot.

The only real reason traditional bow hunters dont like crossbows, unless they are ignorant, is greed. They just dont want more hunters going after what they consider THEIR deer.

In a nutshell, a crossbow is not a bow and arrow and the crossbow violates all recognized definitions of bows and arrows.

A. A hunting bow for big game shall be a longbow, flat bow, recurve bow, compound bow or any combination of these designs meeting the following requirements and restrictions:

1. A device for launching an arrow, which derives its propulsive energy solely from the bending and recovery of two limbs.

2. The bow must be hand drawn by a single and direct, uninterrupted pulling action of the shooter. The bowstring must be moved from brace height to the full draw position by the muscle power of the shooter’s body. The energy used to propel the arrow shall not be derived from any other source such as hydraulic, pneumatic, mechanical or similar devices. These limitations shall not exclude the mechanical leverage advantage provided by eccentric wheels or cams so long as the available energy stored in the bent limbs of the bow is the sole result of a single, continuous, and direct pulling effort by the shooter.

3. The bow must be hand-held. One hand shall hold the bow and the other hand draw the bowstring. The bowstring must be moved and/or held at all points in the draw cycle entirely by the muscle power of the shooter until release. The bowstring must be released as a direct and conscious action of the shooter’s eiter relaxing the tension of the fingers or triggering the release action of a hand-held release aid.

A bow is a weapon that MUST be drawn and held until the arrow is released by pure muscle power of the shooter. Any weapon or device that allows the arrow (or bolt, or other projectile) to be held at full or partial draw without the continuous exertion of muscle power by the shooter, does not meet the definition of a BOW as recognized and accepted by the P&Y Club.

A crossbow requires no archery skills and therefore, a crossbow is an unethical weapon to use when hunting during any form of bow and arrow designated season.

As to any assertions of greed, there are three full color page adds inside the 2007-2008 Virginia Hunting and Trapping Regs Book. One for Excaliber, one for Parker, and one for Horton. These are the commercial lobby groups who persuade top State Game Officials to change legislation for profit not for ethics.

GVA

Just in case you guys are not aware of what is going on behind the scene w/ these commercial lobby groups. I'm sure more than one ethic violation will pop up around the nation over this crossbow stuff. The Freedom of Information Act will reveal much more than 1/2 priced crossbows. You'll find very expensive hunting trips to include African Safaris. They are on a full court press in all 50states for profit:

Reprinted by permission from the Columbus Dispatch newspaper:
Crossbow discounts defended: Company gives ODNR employees break on prices; department officials say no ethics rules violated.

The world's largest maker of crossbows offers deep discounts to every employee of the Ohio Department of Natural Resources, the agency that regulates hunting.

An official with the company, Horton Crossbows of Tallmadge in Summit County, said it's part of a national effort to support states friendly to crossbow hunting, such as Ohio, and to win over states that aren't.

Not every state is receptive to such offers.

"Our ethics law would kind of frown on that," said Fred Harders, an assistant director with the Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources.

Alabama bans crossbow hunting, except for disabled hunters who are granted permission. Nine states limit or prohibit even disabled hunters from using crossbows.

Crossbows, configured like a rifle, shoot arrows. Ohio is one of five states that allows hunters to use crossbows during arche3ry season without special restrictions.

More deer are killed in Ohio with crossbows than with standard bows and arrows.

According to the natural-resources agency, about 200,000 bowhunters participated in the archery deer-hunting season that began Oct. 4 and ended Jan. 31. During the 2002-03 season, bowhunters killed 48,904 deer, up from the 41,526 the previous season.

Horton allows natural-resources employees to purchase one crossbow a year at half the wholesale price, as well as discounted arrows and other equipment.

One Horton crossbow model, for example, sells for about $250 in stores. dealers pay $210 for them, according to the company. State natural-resources employees pay $105.

Other Horton crossbow packages retail for more than $700.

"It's a national program that we offer to all 50 states," said Lee Zimmerman, vice president of sales for Horton. "It's educational. It's safety-support of the product we make."

Zimmerman added that the company has openly offered the deal for years.

"If it's unethical," he said, "we do a (poor) job of hiding it."

Agency officials said they don't keep track of how many of the department's 2,000 employees take advantage of the Horton discounts, and the company wouldn't say.

The Ohio Ethics Commission, which interprets conflict-of-interest questions for state agencies and employees, generally recommends against accepting gifts.

State employees have been prosecuted under the ethics law or fired for receiving golf outings, meals and other valuable freebies.

In 2001, the commission outlined rules for employees discounts. Discounts are allowed only if they are broad enough to limit the appearance of currying favor with decision-makers, and offered in a similar manner to companies and groups in the private sector - for example, a "state employees day" at an amusement park.

The commission hasn't received any complaints or been asked about the Horton Crossbows discounts, according to commission Executive Director David Freel.

Vicki Mountz, who oversees Ohio hunter-education programs for the natural-resources department, considers the crossbow discounts comparable to the amusement park example.

"Do I see it as an impropriety? No," she said. "It's never been brought up to me."

The department's lawyers reviewed the discounts after questions from The Dispatch.

"They saw no problem or no breach of ethics," spokeswoman Jan Beathard said.

Ohio has allowed crossbow hunting for more than 30 years.

Georgia legalized crossbow hunting in 2002. Horton donated about a dozen crossbows for hunter-education classes, but state officials declined the employee-discount offer.

"That offer was made, but our state employees are not allowed to take advantage of that," said Capt. Mike England of the Georgia Department of Natural Resources.

"It's part of our gratuity policy" prohibiting state employees from taking anything worth more than $25, Englund said.

Among archery enthusiasts, opinions are mixed about crossbow hunting.

Purists view crossbows as inappropriate during the weeks set aside for bow hunting. Crossbow hunters, however, say they are a safe and effective option for hunters who are physically unable to shoot a standard bow.

The Alliance for Disabled Sportsmen Rights has filed federal discrimination complaints and has threatened to sue states that ban crossbows, though the group distances itself from the crossbow industry.

"Our laws we're crafting are aimed at disabled use," said Tom LaQuey, the group's founder and a Colorado elk hunter who can't hunt wit a bow or a rifle because of a shoulder injury.

Horton has provided complimentary crossbows to officials in states that are thinking about lifting their bans, most recently in Rhode Island. A bill before the Rhode Island state legislature would repeal the crossbow-hunting ban.

Zimmerman said the goal in Rhode Island, as in Ohio, is to promote safe hunting and inform state officials about crossbows.

He said the company sends instructional videos, equipment and information about the state-employee-discount program to make it easier for state game wardens and hunter-safety instructors to do their jobs.

"In our industry, you’ve got to support the education side," Zimmerman said. "Where is supplying equipment for hunter education unethical?"

Alabama accepts discounts on merchandise purchased by the state and used for hunter education and other programs.

"But that's property of the state," Harders said.

GVA

Throwing Horton lobby talking points out the window and dealing with proven facts:

The crossbow does not fit into the category of archery equipment. It has a stock, cheek plate, trigger, and rifle style sights. The crossbow can be fitted with a telescopic sight, carried cocked, shot out of a vehicle window, and has an average effective range of 69 yards (Marlow Report). The crossbow manufacturing lobby itself determined the effective range of the crossbow to be 60yards. The entire notion that the crossbow has been reduced to having an effective range equal to a modern compound bow was born in a Horton board meeting as a strategy to overcome opposition.

THE MULLANEY REPORT
Mr. Norb Mullaney, a professional engineer, is recognized as the leading authority on the physics of bows and endows. He states that "The hand held bow has one characteristic that distinguishes it from a crossbow or any type of firearm. The internal ballistics are a function of the shooter, his or her physical geometry and capabilities, shooting form, consistency and reaction to stress and trauma. In the crossbow and firearms, the internal ballistics are fixed. The action of the shooter in triggering a release of energy does nothing more than initiate a process that is consistent and repetitive. The hand held bow is different. Every action of the shooter contributes something either positive or negative to the interior ballistic process. As the interior ballistics vary, so do the exterior ballistics. Shooting the hand held bow and arrow is much more complicated than aiming a fixed system of ballistics and touching off the energy discharge. The total energy to draw, hold and release the bow must come directly and unassisted from the shooter's muscle power."
Copies of the Mullaney Report can be obtained from Mr. Mullaney, Engineer, Writer, 8425 North Greenvale Rd., Milwaukee, WI 53217

THE MARLOW REPORT
The technical information on equipment contained in the "Marrow Report" was compiled by Roy S. Marlow and associates; titled "The Modem Hunting Crossbow-- A Study of it's Effectiveness Compared to the Hand Held Bow, 1989".
Roy S. Marlow's areas of expertise are in design, theoretical analysis, and experimental evaluation of structural and mechanical systems. He holds a BS degree in aerospace engineering, an MS degree in mechanical engineering, and an MBA degree in management with a concentration in the management of research and development activities. He is a member of several national engineering societies and scholastic fraternities, is active on industrial committees, and task groups, and has written widely on technical subjects. In 1984 he received the Eugene W. Jacobs Award, which is awarded annually by the American Mechanical Engineers for technical excellence.
The Marlow Report concludes that the crossbow is technically superior to the modem hand held bow in almost every category of comparison. Further, the report concludes that the crossbow is more similar to a fireman than a hand held bow and that crossbows should not be considered as archery equipment. The crossbow which is always cocked, shoulder held, shot from a rest, fired by a trigger and has over twice the effective range of a bow (69 yards) is closer to being a firearm than a hand held bow.
Copies of the Marrow Report can be obtained from R.S. Marlow & Associates, 12503 Chapel Bell, San Antonio, TX 78230

CORNELL UNIVERSITY SURVEY
A 1995 survey titled “Evaluation of Proposals for Change in Deer Hunting Regulation†conducted by Cornell University at the request of the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation concluded that "hunters generally do not support the use of the crossbow."
When deer hunters were asked if they were in support of the use of crossbows during the regular firearms season three quarters of the respondents (75.5%) said their satisfaction would change. Of those, a majority (68.2%) said their satisfaction would decrease if the crossbow was allowed and most of the hunters (87.1%) said their satisfaction would greatly decrease.
Copies of the survey can be obtained from the Human Dimensions Research Unit, Department of Natural Resources, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853-3001

You guys look at every single state that has or is introducing legislation to legalize crossbows and you'll see a ton of dollars going to officials from the Horton Group et al. You will see writers give favorable reviews while being treated to equipment and/or trips. From beginning to end it is all mired with conflicts of interest and ethic violations. All born from greed!


GVA

It's a damn shame this thread had to turn into a pissing match! Typical anti hunting, bunny hugging bullshit ploy......

DIVIDE AND CONQUER!!

When are you morons going to learn that all your infighting does is give fuel to those who would ban all hunting implements??????

WAKE THE FLUCK UP!!

Yea, use those damned crossbows during hunting season where they belong!! Quit screwing with something that already works. Wanna bowhunt...it's simple buy a bow and learn how to use it Quit all this infighting.

the chef

Gary, your argument sounds almost EXACTLY like the arguments I heard in the 1970's when the compound bow was introduced and very similar to what I heard in the 1980's when the inline muzzleloaders came in. It's a shame that hunters would snipe at other hunters simply because they don't agree with the LEGAL methods used to hunt. I'm wondering why someone doesn't say that the only ETHICAL - FAIR CHASE method that should be used for deer is to chase them down and choke them to death.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
Gary, your argument sounds almost EXACTLY like the arguments I heard in the 1970's when the compound bow was introduced and very similar to what I heard in the 1980's when the inline muzzleloaders came in. It's a shame that hunters would snipe at other hunters simply because they don't agree with the LEGAL methods used to hunt. I'm wondering why someone doesn't say that the only ETHICAL - FAIR CHASE method that should be used for deer is to chase them down and choke them to death.

George,

No ethical hunter should stand behind and support any illegal and/or unethical hunter or hunting method. Persons who knowingly and intentionally participate and/or support any illegal and/or unethical form of hunting are assaulting every descent hunter past and present.

There is no argument, the crossbow is not archery tackle. The crossbow is not recognized by any bow and arrow hunting organization in good standing. The only legitimate group of hunters supporting the crossbow are disabled hunters and they have enough integrity to distance themselves from the Horton group bribery scheme.

Why do we even have separate seasons? Why not just use a center-fire rifle during bow and arrow or muzzleloader seasons?? Why not shoot deer during spring gobbler season??? For that matter, why not continue to harvest deer after you run out of tags??? Why would we even want to have a working knowledge of the game we hunt and practice to be proficient at cleanly harvesting game???? Why use a bow and arrow when you can trigger fire a bolt from a shoulder weapon requiring zero archery skills at a deer 63yards away!!

As an avid hunter and outdoorsman with 34years experience hunting big game with a longbow, I'm 110% in support of those who follow the rules and strive to be hunter/outdoorsmen in good standing. I do not support those who break the rules or who are driven to harvest game without regard to ethics. One selfish act by such a slob can destroy years of hard work established by many dedicated hunters.

Outside of efforts for disabled hunters, all locations where liberal legislation has allowed crossbow use by healthy adults has left a wake of problems and ethic violations for hunting and hunters. I may be more vocal than some, but I suspect every single bow and arrow hunting organization will fight this issue to the last breath.

GVA

quote:

Originally posted by jro45:
I just recently bought one and they are legal in my state. What is the Max amount of yards it would be good starting out at with 350 ft per second. Right now I have it Sighted in at 30 yds. I was thinking 50yds. Does anybody else shoot a CrossBow?

To be fair to you as this is your thread:

The engineers behind the crossbow give it an effective range of approximately 60yds. The Marlow Report shows an average effective range of 69yds.

Marlow has a calculation table based on high speed video sequences to show the distance that a deer can drop after hearing the shot. He calls this "string jumping". Using 200fps arrow, at 20yards the deer has enough time to drop, spin and go before the arrow can cover the distance!! 350fps will give you more distance, but not a whole bunch.

Gene and Barry Wensel's video, Hunting October Whitetails, shows a good example of "String Jumping". An alert doe is shot at from 20yards and it appears the arrow goes clean over the deer's back. But in slow motion, the camera shows that the deer drops a full chest height at the sound while the arrow passes where she was a moment before.

All measured tests indicate that at distances beyond approx 25-30yds, the reaction of the deer will have more influence on your shot than your ability to place the shot. I'd suggest staying close to those guidelines while choosing shots where the deer are busy w/ other tasks such as browsing or tending another deer. I've had great success taking my shots when the deer is stepping with only three legs planted to the ground. I'd avoid shots on a full alert deer beyond near point blank range.

Good Luck!

GVA

I have found over the last 60 years the the people who chirp most about "ethics" have problems of their own. "Ethics" is what you do when no one else is looking. Whatever my ethics are, they might be great for me personally and not for you. To say someone who is participating in a lawful activity that is just as humane as any other option is "unethical" is empirical at best and condescending at worst. I think Virginia still hunts deer with dogs and many people are crying the same story about "ethics". I recall the story of an Crow Indian on the reservation being chided about chasing a deer down with his pickup and shooting it. He responded that if his ancestors had had a Toyota instead of a horse, they'd have used it as well. Bob Foulkrod has stated several times on his TV shows that he thinks the hype on crossbows is just kneejerk reactions and that he fully supports there use. I consider that in the same vein as I do Bob Wenzel's, they're just opinions. If you think it's unethical, then don't use one, but if you want to force your ethics on others, you're liable to be in a very dark corner eventually. The crossbow is very much "archery equipement" just as much as the compound bow is. The only true archery equipment is a stick and string bow with cedar arrows. (That's not how I feel obviously, but it makes just as much sense as your remarks.)

I'll leave you to rant on. You have your opinion and the rest of us have ours. You just seem to have a fanaticism about it that I don't.

Good posts Gary.

Why am I not surprized a taxidermist is pro xbow?

Bowman, actually I'm an ardent compound bow user and would NEVER use a crossbow. I have a Switchback and a Switchback XT. My wife is physically handicapped and has a permit to use her Ten Point for archery. But you see, I have to carry that thing for her to the stand and I simply would not use it. It's bulky, you can't move it around in the stand like a bow, you can't mask your movement as easily as a bow, and once you fire it, every deer within 200 yards is going to be skiddish. So that was a nice try on an insult but if fell on deaf ears. How do you feel about the smokeless powder in-lines for muzzleloader season???

I personally know a guy that made a good shot on an antelope last year at 80 yards with a new compound. Crossbows are no more accurate at long distances than someone thats good with a modern compound and equipment. The trigger on a crossbow is no better than the releases that people use and using a crossbow has several distinct disadvantages that compounds dont have. A crossbow is obviously an archery weapon, even a 3 year old could tell you that, its a bow mounted on a stock. No way you could consider it a firearm, there is no propellant and it doesnt shoot a bullet, it flings an arrow with the energy stored in limbs that are identical to any other bow.

quote:

Originally posted by The Derek:
I personally know a guy that made a good shot on an antelope last year at 80 yards with a new compound. Crossbows are no more accurate at long distances than someone thats good with a modern compound and equipment. The trigger on a crossbow is no better than the releases that people use and using a crossbow has several distinct disadvantages that compounds dont have. A crossbow is obviously an archery weapon, even a 3 year old could tell you that, its a bow mounted on a stock. No way you could consider it a firearm, there is no propellant and it doesnt shoot a bullet, it flings an arrow with the energy stored in limbs that are identical to any other bow.

Thank you. Someone else that knows what they are talking about.

Youdon't hold the string with your muscles and you can put a scope on it, you can leave it drawn and ready to go. It's not a bow and it's not a gun.

I have to wait anouther 4 years for my moose draw here, the compound users are so effiecient that they have a pretty high success rate. I don't begrudge them that and I'm not against compounds. I am against even more technology and effectiveness in a season that started out with the animals having a very large margin of safety from the hunters. The further we get from "primitive" weapons the less the opportunity for all hunters.

I don't mind getting out and not shooting my moose this year. But I can't get out next year because of the effectiveness of the new bows. The early seasons are getting shut down for bow hunting and there are very few areas that aren't on draw anymore.

Adding crossbows only makes it worse. That's why I propose to keep it for gun season. If you want to hunt archery season buy a friggen bow and learn to use it. Anyone can pick up a crossbow and shoot it within minutes, there's no learning curve. Bowhuting should have challenge involved and part of the challenge is learning to shoot your bow.



the chef