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My daughter is 8, she is starting to shoot a bow and is enjoying it. Looking ahead a little, I'm just wondering what the minimum draw weight would be for a youth recurve or possibly a compound, to ethically take a whitetail, say, at a range of about 15 yds? Any advice/help appreciated, thanks. | ||
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In most places the minimum legal weight is 40 lbs. | |||
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Well, some states have a minimum draw weight for hunting, so I would start by checking the regulations for Mississippi. If they don't have a minimum listed, I would say 40# is the minimum if everything else is perfect. What I mean is that the broadhead is razor sharp, the arrow is spined perfectly so that it is flying straight and true soon after leaving the bow, and finally that your daughter is able to make a perfect shot. Just my opinion, I am sure those who are more knowledgeable will give some more information. | |||
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I'd pick up a copy of your hunting regulations and see if your state has any minimum poundage requirements. If not, then I'd go with what the other two posters suggested and not allow her to hunt until she can draw and shoot a 40 lb. bow with a reasonable degree of accuracy. I would also give up any notions of using a mechanical broadhead and stick to cut on contact type heads which do not require a great deal of kinetic energy for penetration. | |||
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Supposedly there is a video of Matt Drury's daughter killing a buck with a 30# compound. It wouldn't be legal in my state, but yours might be different. | |||
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Just because things are legal, dosn't mean they are right and the problem with anecdotal stories about what someone else did, is that they may be the truth, but not necessarily ALL of the truth. I have heard all the stories about such and such killing lots of whitetails with 30 or 35 or whatever pound bows, BUT they NEVER mention those deer that ran off never to be found NEVER. Yet we know that it happens. The problem with "under perfect conditions", how often does that happen? A brand new hunter with no experience is the least able to judge what perfect conditions are or if a deer is 15 yards away. Even the most experienced hunters talk about such and such a poundage bow being good up to 25 yards on whitetails and I say, what if the buck of a lifetime comes by at 26 yards? Are you going to pass up the shot? Nobody answers that. I'm not being negative or trying to discourage a new hunter, but the bare minimum, isn't necessarily the best choice and in fact NOBODY can say what the minimum is. You NEVER hear it anymore, but back a few decades ago, the saying was,"shoot the heaviest bow that you can shoot accurately". Now days everyone wants to know what the bare minimum is that they can get away with. Having said all that, I have known some tiny women that had no problem shooting a 45# bow. | |||
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As long as you stay in Mississippi (MS) you shouldn't have to worry about Missouri (MO) regs. Rich | |||
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I hear lots of stories of wounded deer from guys shooting 60# bows. Problem isn't weight it's too many people flinging arrows that don't know what they're doing. If MMM limits his daughter to 15 yards like he says I don't see a problem. What is the difference in arrow speed and energy between a 30# compound at 15 yards and a 60# at 40 yards? | |||
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Thanks for all the replies, I am always glad to hear all opinions. I spoke with a Mississippi game officer this morning, he said there is no legal minimum for a bow in Mississippi. I would think the 40# is about right. We are not trying to get away with anything, I just am thinking ahead and trying to figure out when my daughter might be in the ballpark. Right now her bow is rated at 20-22#, but she is not quite pulling it back to the rated drawlength. She can draw, anchor, pause, and let fly. Right now we are shooting at 10 yds. She is pretty athletic, and I have no doubt that if she keeps it up, she will eventually be shooting a 40-45# bow - maybe a recurve, maybe a compound. Or, she may decide that she enjoys archery but she doesn't want to shoot a deer. Whatever, we are just having fun. A few weeks ago she tried to creep up on a rabbit sitting under a cedar tree in the yard, she got within 6 yds of the thing (I measured), and I swear, when the rabbit bolted she kept the gap with it for about 10 yds until it pulled away from her. She's a lot of fun, and I love to brag on her! | |||
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If you have gophers in your area of the world take her out gopher hunting. Her accuracy and focus will improve like you won't believe and it'll hone her hunting instince. Kids sure are fun to hang out with aren't they? | |||
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Thanks for catching my gaff Rich!  | |||
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We got no gophers around here, I don't think, but there's possums and armadillos and rabbits in the woods, I think we will give it a try when it cools off! Yes, kids are great, my other daughter is 4, we have a lot of fun together. They are both adopted, just think, someone dropped these awesome little girls off at an orphanage when they were a few days old and never came back, unbelievable. | |||
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The facts are that an broadhead kills by causing hemorrhaging and bigger broadheads and more penetration are the way to accomplish that. I've watched a lot of people shoot and have never seen any connection between accuracy and draw weight, despite what the advocates of lightweight bows preach. I figured out a long time ago, penetration may not be the only consideration, but without enough of it, nothing else is going to matter. I know you have squirrels down there in MS and it dosn't take a heavy bow(just lots of arrows), the great thing about bowhunting squirrels is that, in the right tree, you can get lots of shooting! | |||
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Practice is the key regardless of draw weight. I watched a 12 year old boy stalk a hog and put an arrow in the right place at 15 yards. It went all of 20 yards before going down for the count. His draw weight was 33# and the hog was about 130#. BUT, later in the week, he almost won the life saver shoot at 20 yards. He practiced A LOT! Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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If she can shoot 35lbs and have great arrow flight, then the equipment could kill a deer. I would also recomend a 2 or 3 blade cut on contact broad head not over 1"- 1 1/16" dia. If she can get 10" or more of penetration on a fully broadside deer in the heart/lung area, it will die as quickly as if it were shot with a 70lb bow. | |||
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Lets remember a couple things, there is a very big difference between ideal or perfect conditions and reality. Why do some people choose to hunt deer with a 70# bow, instead of a 35# bow? Because in the real world of hunting the ideal or perfect shot, seldom happens. Train for the worst case and hope for the best. I've never been on a tracking job that was TO short or TO easy to follow, but I have been on plenty of the other kind. | |||
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We helped a gal track her deer last year, she was a first time hunter and it was the second deer she'd lost with her rifle. It was heartbreaking for her and surely didn't help to make a future hunter out of her. I know you're just thinking about the future and that's the right way to go about things. You want to make sure that the first deer is killed the "right way" so the memories are ones to cherish. | |||
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Here is a copy and paste from an article written by Ted Nugent i got from archerytalk.com. so this is not mine, and i'm not claiming it as such I will repeat the self evident truth once again. My svelte, sexy, skinny, gorgeous wife Shemane kills everything she shoots at with her 38# Martin bow and 400 grain Gold Tip tipped with a good old Magnus two blade broadhead. Everything! One arrow, one kill, on huge zebra, wildebeest, warthogs, nyala, kudu, impala, blesbok, deer of every shape and size, rams, antelope, hogs, you name it. She draws, she fires, she kills. 38-40 pound draw weight. And though I can draw an 80# bow, I kill everything I shoot at with 48-53# with the same arrow and broadhead. Stealth, grace, timing, and shot placement makes venison. Know it, live it, enjoy it, and celebrate it. | |||
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40+ years of bowhunting with most anything that will fling an arrow I've got to say Ted has hit the nail on the head. 10 grains/pound draw and cut on contact heads will kill most anything out of a 40 pound bow. Easily. Birmingham, Al | |||
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I hear all those stories about how everyone kills everything they shoot at with lightweight bows and lightweight arrows. I don't know, I must be bad luck, cause it just dosn't seem to work out that way, EVERYTIME, in my actual experience. Once again, all I ever hear, the people that endorse the lightweight gear kill everything including "HUGE" zebra and never lose anything. One thing I know from guiding a lot of hunters, the story you hear or read, ain't always the story that happened. | |||
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My Grandaughter has shot, Pig 200lbs, goat, sheep, and is going after her first deer this year. She is now at 40# draw. All the animals I listed were shot with a 35# draw weight. She is very patient, and a very good shot (many many hrs at the back of the property with grandpa). All shots were 15 to 20 yards. 2 Blade Magnus broadhead. 380 gr. Gold tip.. She at 14 weights 120lbs and is now 5'5". She was 10 when she started and was 5'+ amd about 90 lbs. So go for it! Kids are our future in this sport. Thanks Marc Joshua 24:15 www.teamfaithfull.net / My granddaughter "Multitudes loose the sight of that which is, by setting their eyes on that which is not". | |||
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Thanks Marc, that's what I'm aiming for! I don't think my daughter is ever going to be 5'5", but she's a solid little bundle of muscle and she'll be drawing a bow at 35-40# eventually. Is your granddaughter shooting a traditional or a compound? | |||
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Compound... "Pink" Camo Will go up to 50lbs PS.. She shoots a lot. Probally 4X a week. And had a couple of private lessons from our local bow shop. Lessons are not real necessary but endedup good as they will see things from a different view. I thought at first " I been shooting for most of my life i'll show her everything.?? The 2 lessons were $50.00.... well spent. Joshua 24:15 www.teamfaithfull.net / My granddaughter "Multitudes loose the sight of that which is, by setting their eyes on that which is not". | |||
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Loboga, I have been using a Martin Stickbow with 40# pull for the past 30 years on whitetail deer here in Missouri. When I hit them right, they go down. I get complete pass throughs sometimes and other times I get shafts buried up to the fletching. A bow with 40# pull is not what I consider light gear. Have you ever tried using a bow with 40# pull on whitetail deer? Thanks, jfm | |||
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jfm, a 40# is light gear, its not even legal in some states for whitetail and is a coomon weight for a TARGET bow, where they shoot hundreds of arrows a day. Why would I use 40#'s if I can shoot more? I feel its important to ALL bowhunters, the animals and bowhunting in general that we all do the BEST we can do, not the bare minimum. Its not a question of whether or not a 40# will kill a whitetail, its a question of doing the best you can do or the bare minimum that you can get away with. I realize that in this time and place it seems to be a matter of pride for most people to brag about how little effort they put into things. I however will stick to the "ANYTHING WORTH DOING, IS WORTH DOING YOUR BEST AT" and bowhunting is to important to me, to do less than my best at. | |||
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If the best someone can do is 40lbs, then they can decide to hunt or not. Why would they not hunt if their equipment and skills are capable? At full draw, a 40lb trad bow is like holding a 80% let off compound at 200lb draw wt. I myself use a 60lb compound because it it very comfortable, and I can shoot it alot in practice with no worries. I also have a buddy shooting a 74lb wizzbang PSE getting 350+fps. Both of us had complete passthroughs on every deer we shot. How was more weight better from the results? It wasn't at all. He lost more arrows after the kill shot that skipped off into never land, I found all off mine. You fail to realize that being more comfortable annd remaining in ones physical comfort zone leads to better more accurate shooting. Shot placement makes the kill. Even the wizzbang super bows produce less energy than a .22 short rimfire. The name of the game is hitting the mark, even if the practical effective range is less than 18yrds. | |||
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Loboga, what is better than complete pass throughs and dead deer? I do my best with a 40 # pull longbow. I like the challenge of a longbow and have for 30 years. If you want to do things the best you can do, hunt with a rifle, not as bow. Take a chill pill son as the longbow has worked for far longer than the compound. Thanks, jfm | |||
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Well said. jfm Joshua 24:15 www.teamfaithfull.net / My granddaughter "Multitudes loose the sight of that which is, by setting their eyes on that which is not". | |||
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Really, cause it didn't make much sense to me, I never mentioned longbows or compounds. Why would I hunt with a 40#, if I am capable of shooting more? I was shooting and hunting "traditional", before there was a "traditional" and one of the reasons I am a very good tracker today, was because of all the guys that used to hunt with 45# bows. Accuracy does kill deer, but it has nothing to do with poundage, its got to do with practice and ability and if anything, the guys I know that shoot heavier poundages shoot BETTER, because they practice more. I shoot heavier bows, because I can, I can shoot heavier arrows and I can shoot bigger heads and because if everything dosn't go perfect, bigger is better. I was having a discussion with my father, he was still killing deer into his 70's with a bow in the mid 60#'s, I told him about getting taken to task on the internet, because I suggested that people hunt with something more than the absolute bare minimum, his answer? "They're lazy". So son, chill on that! | |||
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Ok, I'm lazy. I think I'll go get a beer. Thanks, jfm. | |||
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I'm not lazy so I'll take another poke.... Most target recurves are around 32 lbs very few are 0ver 35 lbs. Why aren't they shooting 60 or 80lbs, even though the arrows would have a flatter trajectory? Simple, because people can't hold heavy bows as long or shoot them in a relaxed fashion which leads to reduced accuracy. That's exactly why compounds are popular, because they can be held at full draw longer. So over bowing the smaller statured hunters causes loss of accuracy, that's not an opinion it's fact. Whether you're shooting a rifle or a bow you'll be better off with a well placed shot rather than relying on more power to be able to take a poor shot. We all know that bowhunters have to pass on shots that aren't perfect, it's just more so with a light bow. We need to be patient and deliberate with a light bow. I'd love to be able to shoot an 80 lb longbow but I can't draw that much, so I have to be happy with 53#, well tuned arrows and patience. the chef | |||
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