If you really think this poll is beneficial, then may you have a nice day and make sure the tin foil is firmly in your blaze orange hat.

It didn't have my alltime favorite, "don't you hate it when the 80lb compound takes the first layer of skin off your left arm", so I didn't take the poll.

Guess what

I am just at this very moment watching a very nice bowhunt video with some nice foootage taken in SA Namibia and Zambia .... I dont know what the fuss is all about

Peter

D99,

I am a bowhunter, as well as a rifle/shotgun/ muzzleloader hunter. I agree with you to some degree on the bowhunting community having some elitist ideas. But as I've said before, they're hardly unique!

Old cartridge users look down their noses at new cartridge users, stalkers at long distance shooters, both at bait hunters, compound shooters at gun hunters, traditional bow shooters at compound shooters, and on and on.

I absolutely agree that all hunters need to join organizations that fight against the anti's, and need to recognize that we need to band together.

Steve

quote:

Choices:
Bowhunters get to hunt elk during the rut.
Bowhunters pay a reduced African Safari rate.
bowhunters wound more game. Almost 40% of everything they shoot at acording to Oregon Game and Fish.
Bowhunters are elitist, and think bowhunting is the only fair chase.
I don't agree with this survey and think you are a fat bald asshole! I am only being fair, I had to give you a way out if you didn't like my the above facts.

Nice trolling...doesn't look like the fish are biting huh?

I would like to know were all those reduced African hunts are?

I've wanted to go back for a Cape Buffalo Bowhunt since '01. I've watch the hunts go from 7 to 10K.

Of course to some of the elitist here that's not a hunt, it's a STUNT....

Bowhunter and SCI member.

I had to vote that you're a fat, bald asshole. I like all styles of hunting, rifle, pistol, bow, shotgun, etc.

I'm a bowhunter, member of both NRA and SCI.

Try bowhunting-You will love it!
Bowhunting is older than Gunhunting!
Bowhunting is harder than gunhunting!
you want be shooting them from 900yards away like they did on that one video-Thats for sure!
Have a good day!

Life member of the NRA
Rifle, shotgun, pistol, bowhunter.

I agree that all hunters, regardless of technique, have to band together and support their lobby groups against the anti-hunters.

Hello all
Was concerned with one of the choices, regards wounded game, Is this really an issue? I don't take everything I read as gospel especially after so called research into duck hunting and wounded game vs my own experiences. However I have read a few bow hunting stories in shooting mags and have been a bit concerned that they never really report the animal dropping dead instantly, instead they say one shot killed and it only made a few feet etc. Which for me implies the animal new it was hit and wasn't killed instantly and was crawling away wounded (although fatally!). This performance can also be attributed to rifle and shotgun hunting occasionally as well .

I would really like this cleared up by experienced bow hunters.
How quickly and humanely does a bow kill animals when you are an experienced bow hunter?

If this (poor) performance is not common what do you think they could have done to improve this or simply dont I read enough stories from experienced bow hunters?


I realise I am asking a biased group but as I have never been bow hunting I will take what is written in good faith and with a pinch of salt at the same time .

regards
robe

quote:

I would really like this cleared up by experienced bow hunters.
How quickly and humanely does a bow kill animals when you are an experienced bow hunter?

Here's a link to the most well know study on Bowhunting sucess vs. wound rates http://www.nbef.org/ripley.html

It found the wound rate to be closer to 13% vs, the 40% as posted by our TROLL friend that started this thread.

The only shot that will cause instant death (if that is possible)is a brain shot. Which is NOT a Bowhunting shot. An arrow kills by hemmorage. So the prime target is the heart/lumg interface area. With the best results coming from hitting the heart arterys.

There is a study that a heart/lung shot from a bow and from a rifle round will cause death within .45 seconds of each other.

robe0280,

Arrows kill by cutting blood vessels and bleeding the animal out. It is almost never an instantaneous kill. It is supposed to be an easy, relatively painless way to die. Like drowning.

But I've rarely seen truly instantaneous kills even with rifles or shotguns, excepting brain or CNS shots, though I've seen animals drop to the shot and die before I get to them. And I've seen very small animals seem to die instantaneously, like Springbok hit at inside 100 yds with a high speed 180 grain .308.

Even on an impala and wildebeest that were heart shot, they both managed to get back up and make a short death run.

When my dog's kidneys failed, they "put her to sleep". It was short, but it wasn't instantaneous. Nor was it drifting off to sleep.

I know you know this, so please forgive the preachy tone, but if we hunt, we are killing the animals. I sort of think we should be mindful of it when hunting. And we should appreciate the fact and not try to diminish it by trying to pretend that the animal feels no pain.

It sometimes concerns me that we've set an impossible standard. Humane hunting is a good goal. But it has come to mean pain-free hunting and only taking 100% sure shots in some people's minds, and that's an impossible standard. And it's one that the anti-hunters will twist and use against us.

Kind of like how spanking has become child abuse with the same crowd. The idea that anything hard or negative or dangerous needs to be completely weeded out.

Okay, I'm done now. If you were just trolling for a sucker, you found him.

Steve

thanks steve
nicely put. Am not overly critical of bowhunters. All forms depend on the hunter more than the method. I don't see to many of the animals I shoot with rifle do anything more than get blown back or slump on the spot. Not all the shots are headshots with most being through a sholder to the the area at the top of heart and base of lungs.

Can certainly appreciate your centiments on digging a hole for ourselves though.

Agree whole-hartedly on spanking kids.

But will continue to strive for the 100%. Only way to keep it close.

Thanks, robe0280.

I know what you mean, particularly with deer; they usually seem to just drop and not move. It's mostly shots on bigger/tougher animals that've lead me (fairly recently) to believe that death isn't instant. That little impala really surprised me.

I understand and respect your desire to strive for the 100%.

Steve

quote:

but if we hunt, we are killing the animals. I sort of think we should be mindful of it when hunting. And we should appreciate the fact and not try to diminish it by trying to pretend that the animal feels no pain.

Very well said.

A bow is a short distence, ambush weapon a fact that has remained true for the last 10,000 years, no matter what new advances the AMO comes up with.

The adverage shot is still 18 yrds. Modern compound bow can easily group under 2" @ 60yrds. from the hands of an adv. shooter. Competant trad. shooters can group as well or better @ 20yrds. I feel Bowhunters tend to hold out a little longer for the proper shot. We don't get as many shot oppertunitys, hence we are maybe(?) more commited to making that shot count.(I hope that wasn't too elitist?)

Boss,

I hope I didn't strike a nerve on one of the good guys! When I talked about elitism, I'm mostly talking about the "Anybody who gun-hunts isn't really hunting" attitude you get with some bowhunters. Or worse, there are the traditional folks who think that compound hunters shouldn't be allowed to hunt in archery season. I shoot compounds and trad bows, and I can't believe all the divisions and reverse snobbery even among the subgroup of bowhunters.

Steve

I think we as hunters to stick up for one another. However, like golf, there is no referee to make sure no one cheats out there. It is up to us to make the right dsecisions and hunt"ethically". I hear that the bow hunting season here in Mi is too long but the people that are saying this don't seem to want to spend the last week of Dec in a tree stand like myself. Some of the best hunting time.

If someone thinks a bow will not put down a deer very fast,they have absolutely no experience w/ Bow Hunting.

A good heart/lung shot w/ a bow will put a mature whitetail down w/in a few short seconds of the shot.

I've actually had deer go down much faster when shot w/a bow vs. a 30-06 rifle. Usually when hit through the vitals they only travel a very short distance. There is the occasional deer that makes it out to 100 yards but, that has been very rare in my experience w/ vital shot deer.

I've also had great luck on quartering shots when the liver was struck. In those instances the animals usually expired w/in mere feet of impact.

Now, I do find that expandable broadheads w/ large cutting diameters kill much faster due to the greater damage they inflict upon the vital organs. I switched to expandables years ago and I've found them to be superior to Fixed blades when whitetail sized game are on the menu.

The keys to quick kills involve many aspects, one of the most important being a very sharp broadhead. If you've ever seen any one do the "Rubber Band Test" w/ broadheads, you know what I mean about sharp broadheads. I've found that many rookies to the sport use broadheads that are cheap or dull and don't do the job then, they tell all of thier buddies how poorly a bow kills animals.


If there is any reason bow hunting wounds more animals than gun hunting, it's for the simple reason that hunters don't take the time and effort to learn the skill it takes to place an arrow in the right place.

Don't believe all the TV shows either, It makes me cringe when the so called "Pros" shoot a deer w/ a bow on camera and then wait until the next day to recover the animals. You can tell they are only in it for the horns not the meat. How many times do you see them wait until the next day when they shoot game w/ a rifle? It's no different the animals expire just as quickly when hit correctly w/ an arrow and sharp broadhead.

Good Luck!

Reloader

quote:

I hope I didn't strike a nerve on one of the good guys!

No, not at all.

You are correct, there are a few knucleheads in every group. We pick our challenges & weapons for ourselves, that doesn't make it better, just personal.

I would agree that there a higher chance of wounding an animal when hunting with bow than a rifle.

I've hunted with my bow since I was 6 years old (starting with rabbits) and I've hunted with rifles for about the same amount of time. Anything, whether it be an arrow, bullet, spear, etc. will kill an animal if it goes through the heart and lungs.

The issue is trying to get that object into the heart and lungs. Most guys, whether they'll admit it or not, tend to get a little buck fever from time to time. Trying to shoot a rifle with a little buck fever is a heck of a lot easier than trying to shoot a bow with it.

For the record, I've only lost one big game animal, a bear, that I shot with a rifle. On the other hand, I've lost about a half a dozen deer and one elk over the yearswhile bowhunting. All of them were ethical, in range shots; something just went wrong, whether it was the animal jumping the string, me misjudging the range, the string hitting my jacket, etc.

While bowhunters probably do wound a higher percentage of animals, I believe that a much higher percentage of those animals survive the wounds. I've never killed a deer that had a healed bullet wound, but I have killed two that had old broadheads embedded in the shoulders that had completely healed up.

Pete

quote:

I would agree that there a higher chance of wounding an animal when hunting with bow than a rifle.

I respectfully disagree. I believe it's a human issue not a weapon of choice issue. I was the only bowhunter in a Caribou camp. The guys that were dedicated riflemen made good shoots. Those who were not, wounded game AND didn't seem overly concerned about it. The fact that they used a rifle wasn't a factor.

One thing I'm sure of. Bow hunters try much harder to retrieve animals they've hit. I've found 1 or 2 deer almost every year that gun hunters have left, either because they didn't know they'd hit the animal, or because they just didn't try very hard to recover it.

I've only found one animal hit with a bow, and I had killed this one with a rifle. The broadhead was against the spinal processes.

quote:

One thing I'm sure of. Bow hunters try much harder to retrieve animals they've hit. I've found 1 or 2 deer almost every year that gun hunters have left, either because they didn't know they'd hit the animal, or because they just didn't try very hard to recover it.

That totally gripes my goat when that happens. There are too many folks that shoot at an anmimal w/ a gun and if he's not laying dead where they shot him or w/in sight, they just leave. They need to give up the hobby if they are that lazy and unethical.

I've spent many a late night in the bush tracking animals, many times on hands and knees searching for tracks or tiny drops of blood. I don't see how a man could put the effort in it takes to get the shot and then just quit if the animal doesn't go down w/in a few feet.

Reloader

Absolutely right on Reloader. I will apply whatever time it takes, even using up an afternoon hunt or late into the night to find an animal that has been wounded. Several of my hunting partners have gotten me to help them because I am patient and good at finding the smallest of sign. That being said, a wounded animal is rare for any of us.
I think most deer recover well from a non fatal arrow wounds in the long term. On the other hand, wounds from rifles are certainly more invasive and probably offer less of a long term recovery for the animal.I seems to me that the mechanical heads I use, (NAP Spitfire), do a fantastic job although I sharpen them up with a fine file, even the new ones out of the box. I have only had two deer that dropped at the shot, both hit through the spine. It took a finishing shot to kill them. Those were misses on my part and it is unfortunate that I didn't hit a few inches lower but the animals were harvested. Most of the heart-lung shot deer I've seen run about 40-50yds.
This elitism crap amongst hunters will likely be our ultimate downfall unless a fundamental change occurs. I know plenty of guys who hunt and shoot a lot at the range that aren't members of the NRA or other pro-hunting organization. We need to support these organazations that speak directly to those bloated politicians in Washington. Standing around the truck at the end of the day knocking a few cold ones back and bitching about the Liberals trying to strip our freedoms away doesn't count as political action fellas.

Good Hunting

Perf

Bowhunting or Gun hunting been a big ? around
here in Texas sensed I was boy. When I was about
9 I learn to hunt deer with guys that ran dogs,
I know dogs is a whole nother thing but hear me out.These same men that I hunted with then said
that hunting from stands was not hunting but when the bow came along my goodness you thought
the world was ending.And all of you know that
this is not true.Bowhunting has been around longer than us and so has gun hunting. When it comes down to it , we the hunter make what happens go right or wrong as far as the kill
goes.It is not the bow or the gun . So we as a group should stand together .So we can be heard.So the people that want hunting stopped
will know where we all stand, not apart but
together.Also I think all of you have just about
touched all of the bases with some very good
points.Hope I did'nt stay on my soapbox to long,
or say something offensive.

Thank you all for your input. I took a chance posting this on the bowhunting forum. I did it for one reason, I wanted to know what everyone else though about bowhunters.

I used to be a bowhunter. My biggest complaint about bowhunting is the elk rut issue, and the elitism that many hunters not just bowhunters have.

Here is a short list of hunting elitist I have met in my life, in no particular order:
Western elk hunters
Eastern whitetail hunters
Eastern turkey hunters
Upland hunters
waterfowlers
sheep hunters
bowhunters
European driven hunters
NZ chamois and tahr hunters
Big five hunters

The biggest point is we all need to band together or we won't have the ability to keep our sport.

thanks for your post

PS I am a fat bald guy, but usually not an asshole.

quote:

Thank you all for your input. I took a chance posting this on the bowhunting forum. I did it for one reason, I wanted to know what everyone else though about bowhunters.

Seems to me you only did it to stir the pot up as your're specifically addressing Bowhunters on this forum.

If your motives were true I'd think you would have posted this on another forum to get the imput from "everyone else".

Back peddling is a poor substitue for an apology my friend. We all post things from time to time that aren't well thought out.

Now go sit quetly in the corner and reflect on your crimes and stay there until your're ready to play nice.

Boss, I agree with you 100%.
Bowhunters actually lose LESS deer then gun hunters and will stay out all night and the next day to find one. I hunt mushrooms in the spring and am appalled at the number of deer carcasses I find from gun hunters. All of us good archers apply the same rules to gun hunting and never give up until we know it is not possible to find one.
Reminds me of a story I heard long ago. Seems as if mule deer hunters out west would take a long shot and if the deer didn't fall, they assumed they missed and would go look for another deer to shoot at. Not once did they go see if there was evidence of a hit because they were too lazy to walk that far. I have friends that want their rifles to knock deer down every shot and I almost have to beat their heads against the wall to convince them that it is not the way it is. I will give them this much, they do go look and track the deer looking for blood and will spend the whole day searching, or they would not be a friend for long.
I have bow hunted all of my life. I hunt with guns too, mostly revolvers and muzzle loaders although I have killed deer with all sorts of firearms. I don't like anyone getting down on bowhunters! We have better ethics then any other type of hunter and I am proud of it.
It would do gun hunters a lot of good to learn our ways, join with us and band together to protect our hunting rights instead of poking remarks at us.

quote:

We have better ethics then any other type of hunter and I am proud of it.

I'm a Bowhunter 1st & foremost and proud to have guys like you representing us. I do think that ethics don't go with the weapon we hunt with, they belong to the man doing the shooting.

There are plenty of ethical rifle hunters out there too.

Not only do I hunt with a Bow (longbow & recurve....not compound), but I hunt with handguns,rifles,spears & anything else I can get my hands on to harvest my game. I feel anybody that wants to hunt should have the right to do so, in any manner they so desire. I will say this...I will not shoot an animal that can not be taken in an ethical humane manner.
Member: NRA,IDPA,IPSC,SCI,Traditional Bowhunters of Florida.ect