I am of the opinion, and it is opinion only, that animals "jump the string" not because of the frequency of the noise but because the noise is unnatural to thier environment. So to me the quiter the bow the better, as you quieten it down in one frequency range it's going to quiten down across the whole spectrum. Sim's stuff covers a range of 10hz all the way to 30,000
My bow has limbsavers and old style rubber string whiskers, but the biggest help to quieting my bow down was a NAP ShockBlocker stabilizer. Brought it from a mild "thwack" down to a quiet "thump". Biggest noise problem I have found (I'm opening a new bag of worms.) is the noise from the vanes on the arrow itself as it travels through the air. I have suspicion that this is what half the deer are "jumping". Helps if you can catch them "chewing".

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Biggest noise problem I have found (I'm opening a new bag of worms.) is the noise from the vanes on the arrow itself as it travels through the air. I have suspicion that this is what half the deer are "jumping". Helps if you can catch them "chewing".

I don't disagree w/ that one bit.

Have you ever stood around the corner of a building to be safe and listened to someone shoot their arrows by you into a target. They definitely have a little noise to them. Feathers are even worse than vanes.

Reloader

My brother and I ran a test to see if we could move the target before the arrow reached it just from hearing the shot. A human can react fast enough even with bad hearing so I know a deer can. Check out the size of those ears. I don't care what frequency scares a deer and I think their hearing is good enough to hear most any bow. I think the attitude of the of the deer at the time of the shot is the determining factor. If they are alarmed before the shot try to wait them out and get a shot at a calm deer( one that is chewing is a good sign). That works best for me but I love to shoot a really quiet(to me) recurve.

IMHO, quieter is better. But it would have to be quiet across the entire frequency spectrum. (1Hz-1Mhz)

It's possible that the deer are hearing the fletching (vanes/feathers).
But they could also be hearing the blades of the broadhead.
Or the arrow sliding across the rest. Whether it be the shooters hand, a leather pad on the bow, a metal rest, or a boar hair rest.

In the end, if the bow is quite, and fast, then you're good.

mike

96, swede has it right. The new silencing stuff quiets the whole sound spectrum so even what we can hear is deadened.
I can only relate things to you but I know you don't believe anything. I had an early compound that was dead quiet. I also shot indoor target with it. My bow was almost silent and made much less noise then any other on the range. It was not possible to hit any animal with that bow. The one deer I did get with it bolted at the shot, spun around to go back the way it came from and I hit it on the opposite side through the liver. The shot was 20 yd's. Now you tell me a lot of deer you shoot at jump the string, just what is it that makes them do that? And you say your bow is quiet.
The three bows I have now are not real quiet, they make some noise. They are fast for the arrow weights I shoot. A 650 gr arrow at 238 fps is not slow. I average 3 to 7 deer a season. These bows have killed around 38 deer since I bought them. NONE have jumped the string out to 35 yd's which was the longest shot I took. Like I told you, I have around 227 bow kills.
Yes I do study them and play with them. I can do things around deer you would never believe, you would call me a liar. I HAVE played with sounds around them, this is not off the top of my head like you think it is.
But I can see you like to argue just for the sake of it.

I'd agree that quieter the better..is best.

However, I don't believe that jumping the string can just be credited to those options.

IMHO I believe hunters alreadt have the deer on alert from other clues PRIOR to the loosing of the arrow. Changes in the hunters breathing due to the excitement, those suttle shifts ofthe body as you start to draw, stand noise as you cometo draw, the noise (albet irt slight) of the arrow being drawn....all start to put the deer on alert. The string /arrow noise is the last straw.

This is were heavier arrows have a distinct advantage. More energy can be absorbed by the arrow BEFORE it is tranfered to the riser, shock absorbing devices and the hunters arm.

Boss, you are right in that if a deer is alerted before the shot, it is already on edge. I avoid this. I did do a strange thing a few years ago. A buck at 25 yd's caught me drawing the bow, he came out from behind a tree faster then I thought he would. He was standing there looking right at me but with the camo I had on, I don't think he could make me out. I dropped the pin behind his shoulder and shot. He never moved until the arrow went through him. I also shot a doe that walked right up to me and stood there staring at me as I drew the bow and shot her. She never moved either. Doesn't happen often though, does it?

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Doesn't happen often though, does it?

I've never been so fortunate.

I pushed the envelope a few times when I was young. Hand my share of deer duck or jump. I did have one that I shaved some hair off his back. I saw him 2 other times that season. I've always been glad he lived through my bad choice.

Over the years I've come to the point where I just don't take any risky shots. Getting a deer just to get a deer isn't a priority anymore. I get more satisfation out of allowing the deer to get extremely close.

The nice thing about hunt is there are differant challanges and we all can find the ones that keep us motivated.

Thats the reason I don't use a rifle. I took 4 with them and sold all but one. I won't part with it because it is a Swedish Mauser I customized with a cherry stock that came from a tree in my woods. I haven't even had my muzzle loaders out in years. I use revolvers in gun season. I see many more deer but mostly only shoot at archery ranges. I have shot 2 at 100 yd's offhand though. This handgun hunting lets me study them and enjoy them much more then the ridiculous long range shots with rifles. That is not hunting, just shooting. I do get tired of bowhunting and when the gun season opens and it gets cold, I can stay warmer with the handgun. Getting too old to sit and freeze.

Someware I read/heard that if you aim for a heart shot and the deer ducks/jumps the string you will still hit him in the lungs/vitals is this correct? Or will it be more likely that you will shoot under the deer if it dosent react to the sound? As good a vision as the deer have maybe they are capable of seeing the arrow coming at them while in flight. I have stood off to the side while my cousin was shooting at a target at various distances and even with my bad vision I could see the arrow in flight. Something else to think about.

Have a great weekend.

quote:

Someware I read/heard that if you aim for a heart shot and the deer ducks/jumps the string you will still hit him in the lungs/vitals is this correct? Or will it be more likely that you will shoot under the deer if it dosent react to the sound? As good a vision as the deer have maybe they are capable of seeing the arrow coming at them while in flight. I have stood off to the side while my cousin was shooting at a target at various distances and even with my bad vision I could see the arrow in flight. Something else to think about.

Yes, that is true. Most serious bow hunters will tell you to aim at the heart. I aim at the heart and hit several deer through the lungs if their spooky. A slower louder bow can amplify this drop/high hit scenario. I know some guys that actually aim at the bottom of deer and they are quite succesful. I personally like to hold in the heart area so if they don't react, I'll still get a deadly shot.

Have a Good One

Reloader

I believe G. Fred Asbell once said something to the effect "Until arrows are faster than sound then a quiet bow is better than a fast bow."

Deer have very poor vision during the daylight hours. They can't tell a human from another deer and if you know what to do, you can fool them. There is NO WAY they will see an arrow coming at them. For one thing, it is going straight at them, they are not on the side watching it go by.

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Deer have very poor vision during the daylight hours. They can't tell a human from another deer

I don't even know where to start w/ that assumption.

Where do you figure it is an assumption? I have fooled the deer and had 17 feeding within 10 yd's and they no longer paid me any attention. I was on the ground in case you get any ideas. I have been within 40 yd's of a herd and I followed them across a 500 yd winter wheat field as they fed. They move fast and it is hard to keep up. I won't tell you all the things I did to try and make them run off. Once they thought I was another deer, they never looked at me again.
I jumped a big doe from her bed and played with her. She came back and laid down again within 10 yd's. She was licking her side and I was moving around as I watched squirrels. (Not deer season.)
I have been playing with deer from day one because I used my head and figured them out. I can relate 1000 instances of being right in with deer and have killed many of them this way.
You do not have the slightest idea what you are talking about.
I told you I have studied the deer! I can disprove most of the crap you read in deer books.
I wrote a book on my methods but never published because of the cost. No, you will never see a copy because you already know all there is to know. You see, but you are blind, you hear but you are deaf! The deer tell and show you things but you ignore them.

and we thought Timothy Treadwell was dead.

Bfr,

You apparently haven't studied them enough.

Deer are by far not near as blind as you say, this is one of the most ridiculous BS theories I've ever heard. They can see much better than you give them credit for.

Just because you've snuck up on unpressured deer doesn't mean anything. I've walked right up to them myself many times but, you aren't going to do it in a high pressured area and if you say you can, your full of %$$*.

Again Bfr show me your source for this poor deer vision .

And by the way if you know more than all of the biologist that write published articles, why aren't you the most famous deer hunting author on earth?

Reloader

Two reasons I can see. I never killed a book deer that would make me famous overnight, because I don't like bucks. I give any I shoot away, don't like the meat. Second reason is I don't have money to publish.
You have much to learn but profess to be smart. I can only compare you to a liberal democrat.

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liberal democrat.

I can tell you have no clue what so ever. Your ridiculous ideas are proof of it.

Way off on the liberal insult, I'm as far from it as you can imagine.

Have fun shooting blind doe w/ your loud bow from the ground bfr.....

Reloader

Liberal democrat!!! He got you good with that one Reloader.

On the string jumping issue: I've only had one make a significant jump out of 80 or so and she was 40 yards away and just happened to look in my direction just as I reached full draw. The arrow struck her in the neck as she spun so she died quickly anyway. My point is that she saw me and it was daylight!....must have been a fluke.

Shoot a relaxed deer.

IMHO, I think that a quieter is better than faster. I have shot deer with my recurve (160f.p.s.) and had them show very little reaction to being hit. Same with my Hoyt shooting heavy arrows(2216). What good is speed if it sounds like a gun going off? Just my thoughts.

JVD, now you have it! Quiet is always better. The new speed freak bows are NOT quiet. Light arrows are NOT quiet. Anticipating where a deer will be when it jumps and aiming to adjust for the movement is NOT the way to hunt.
Deer will tolerate certain noise and might turn it's head to look. When the noise goes into the higher frequencies, they will not do anything but come unglued.
The idea is to take the noise level down to the point that a deer will not jump the string. Even though the higher frequencies are the worst, the overall reduction in sound will still be there. However, if you just make the bow quiet to your ears, it can still make deer jump. Then more work is needed to find out what is making the sound that scares the deer. I have had recurves and compounds that were very loud but never made a deer jump the string. I have had compounds that made no noise at all that would turn a deer inside out.
If you have a very quiet bow and the deer continue to jump the string, SOMETHING IS WRONG AND NEEDS FIXED! With the proper setup, even a deer that is wired and on edge will not move at the shot. I just don't know how I can explain it any better.
I would rather use your slow bows then one that shoots over 300 fps and I would have to aim at the ground under a deer or five feet in front of a deer to hit it.
But nobody can change a speed freaks mind, after all, a deer can't outjump a fast arrow, CAN THEY? I have never heard of any arrow that can reach a deer before the sound. Some guys talk like they have changed the rules of physics. The bows the Indians made were no good---too slow! Long bows suck---too slow! Recurves almost as bad! I have to wonder why the Indians didn't starve to death. From the invention of the first bow, no one should have lived because they were too slow to kill.
I hate arguing with bi-polar archers that know everything! I have a bi-polar grandson that knows everything in the world but doesn't know how to wipe his butt.
Thank you for breathing some fresh air into this useless discussion.

Bfrshooter,
I think your grandson inherited your brain malfunction.

quote:

What good is speed if it sounds like a gun going off? Just my thoughts.

Modern Technology has helped this out quite a bit. If you don't believe a fast bow can be quiet, I urge you to listen to a new Pearson or Mathews bow that is loaded w/ Sims products. It will really amaze you at how quiet a fast bow can be now-a-days. I've heard Pearson bows shooting arrows at 275+fps that were extremely quiet, the quietest I've ever heard.

Some bows just will not shoot fast and quiet period but, The Engineers over at Pearson and Mathews have somethin' going.

Good Luck

Reloader

None of you have not listened to anything I have been saying! I never said all bows make noise or scare the deer. Look at all the rubber stuff in the new bows. What are they for?
What I have been saying all along is that if your fast bow scares deer something is wrong with it. Too light of an arrow, something on the bow that projects sound, a bow that is too pre-loaded and many other things.
Everything I have been reading on these posts is about deer jumping the string. Many of you have the solution to allow for it---HOW? Many of you say a deer can not avoid a fast arrow---HOW? Some of you say I shoot 10 yd's or less and they can't out jump my bow, real good to buy a bow that shoots flat to 35 yd's but you can't shoot over 10!
If you have a new, fast bow and the deer do not move--GREAT. But if they do you have to FIX THE PROBLEM.
Everything I have said is that if you have a problem either the arrow is too light for the bow, something is wrong with the bow, it was not designed to prevent noise, it was made for speed and target shooting with no regards to the needs of the hunter.
Everything I have said about an old stick bow that is slow but deer do not move is true, I would rather use it then a bow that scares the animal.
Too many of you go season after season with a setup that doesn't work and make excuses for it. If it doesn't work, fix it. If you can't, get rid of it and buy one of the new bows designed to be quiet.
NOT ONCE HAVE I SAID THAT THERE ARE NOT GOOD QUIET BOWS OR FAST BOWS THAT WILL NOT SCARE DEER.
A lot of you have good setups and new fast bows that are no problem and yet you jump in and argue with me when I am trying to tell others not as fortunate as you that they have a problem.
Every single thing we have been discussing are those setups some of you use that do not work.

bfr, with all due respect, your posts to this thread are pitiful.

My observations are that deer seldom duck at 30 yds and beyond regardless of bow noise. It's when you startle them at very close range that causes the duck(loading to jump).

Deer in an alert or semi alert state are more problematic and headup standing deer sometimes are quick to react. Also IMHO, movement associated with the shot is the cause of it many times.

A loud noise at close range is more likely to startle anything than a soft noise. duh.

As for ultrahigh frequency soundwaves; a poor attempt to make an arguement for an unseen and unheard enemy that doesn't exist, the purpose of such a position I'll leave for the reader to ponder. It's been proven the deer whistles for cars don't work either.