The Bow I have (a Mission Craze) has a wide range of both Draw Lengths(DL) and Draw Weights(DW). The DL is adjustable between 19"<->30". The DW adjusts from 15#<->70#. For the purpose of this question, you can assume the DW is 50#<->70#, whatever weight you are comfortable drawing. And it will remain at that DW for this question.

The Arrow Shaft is the correct Spine for that DW. For a 28" DL the Arrow is X" long. You are using a Mechanical Release.
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Any comments concerning this question are welcome. I'm wondering if I'm over-thinking the issue?

Question:
Which Draw Length(DL) would you choose?

Choices:
1. A 28" DL, a 2" Loop, and an Arrow X" long.
2. A 29" DL, a 1" Loop, and an Arrow X+1" long.
3. A 30" DL, no Loop, and an Arrow X+2" long.
4. You have to try them to see what shoots the Best in that specific Bow.
5. It doesn't really matter, the difference is miniscule.
6. Other

Question:
Which of the above would you expect to shoot Faster?

Choices:
7. #1
8. #2
9. #3
10. #4
11. #5
12. #6.

Question:
Which would you expect to be the most Accurate after a proper Tuning?

Choices:
13. #1
14. #2
15. #3
16. #4
17. #5
18. #6

 

Your poll is somewhat flawed as it's not like you can choose your draw length. That is based on your physical dimensions. However long your draw length is, is what it is! Now you can choose to add a string loop or not, but the arrow performance difference is going to be miniscule at best, however you might increase accuracy.

And yes, you're overthinking the issue. You need a consistent anchor point, and arrows that extend about one inch beyond the rest when you're at full draw. That's it!

What Shof just said. I personally like a string loop, which probably sacrifices a tad of the power stroke/draw length, but I think they shoot more consistently. They need to be large enough to work with your release/nock combination. The release, anchor point, string loop if you use one, all determine draw length. You can play with one or all of them, but I would go with what feels comfortable, stable, & gets you a smooth release. You might try a session with a good pro/instructor to get your setup & form optimal if you have not shot in a while.

I appreciate both of your alls thoughts. I've already talked to Tim(Galuber's Sporting Goods) about helping me get it all Tuned up when it warms up a bit. His Target is outside and it is just too cold right now for me to be out in it and be comfortable trying to focus on whatever he might need to tell me.
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I had no idea what my Draw Length was until I got this Bow. Apparently my normal DL is 30" which will cause the Cams to totally Stop rotating. But, with the Loop at different lengths, I can set the DL on the Bow to accomodate the Bow String being farther from my hand. Or a 1" Loop would set the DL at 29" and a 2" Loop at 28".

As I thought about it, I figured the L-o-n-g-e-r DL would be similar to a longer barrel on a rifle. Meaning it would allow the stored energy a bit more time to exert its influence on the Arrow, resulting in more Velocity.

Then it crossed my mind that having the Shorter DL would allow "shortening" the Arrow and thus making it a bit Lighter which is less Mass to be moved.

Also, the overall movement of the Bow "might" be more with the longer DL which would result in potentially more vibration.

And all of that thinking prompted the question. I have no problem believing that I'm just over-thinking the issue though.

Hot Core,

If, at a competent archery shop, your d/l was found to be 30", then your body draw length is 30" to your comfortable anchor point.

if this was measured with a release, and that was a very comfortable anchor point that you can repeat every single time you shoot, then ok, this is your body's d/l.

now the draw length you set for your bow, you are correct, you can modify slightly by adding a longer or shorter string loop.

almost everyone i know (myself included) shoots a string loop with a mechanical release, which i also recommend for you since your bow is so short axle to axle.

for me personally, i would add a loop, but only one that is adequate enough to fit your release and your nock with a tiny bit of room in between. i do not like extra length in my loop, so i would definitely not use a 2" loop.

take it to your bow shop, have them put a normal loop on it, and draw it back. if your anchor point is now too far back, shorten the bows d/l to 29.5" and try again. if its still too long, go to 29". thats it. dont over think it past that. you may find that with a loop 30" is still perfect for you. if so, great.

i would not worry about your arrow length too much as far as getting it lighter. as long as they are spined correctly, an inch of arrow weight is not going to make much difference. i shoot a 30" draw and 31.5" arrows, because i want my broadhead in front of my front grip finger at full draw. but that's just personal preference.

Thank you. My buddy Ralph has mentioned the Arrow Length should be long enough that the Broadhead is forward of my Bow hand. I can see where that would be an easy thing to do in order to prevent an accidental bad cut.

I appreciate ALL such Tips rather than having to learn about them first-hand.

Can't help you with this one...I shoot real bows!

See? Now it's that attitude right there that ticks me off a little. We were having a nice discussion when someone decided to stir the pot implying that they're better because they decided to stay with antiquated technology.

Personally, it doesn't matter to me one little bit if you decide to shoot a longbow, a recurve or the latest and greatest in compound bow technology. What does matter is you've chosen to hunt with a bow! That in and of itself means you're willing to learn how to get closer to your game and make one shot count.

End of statement....

Don't get yer boxers in a bunch, Shof. I was just kidding around...note the wink smiley...and I wasn't implying anything or trying to stir the pot. Have a good 'un!

quote:

What does matter is you've chosen to hunt with a bow! That in and of itself means you're willing to learn how to get closer to your game and make one shot count.

Good words!

1/2" string loop H.C. no more!!!!

There are many ways one can have his/her draw checked wrong! But I will say this...most people draw to long. I am 6ft 2inches tall and draw 29" because I shoot with a bent bow elbow and I do not hold the bow parralel to my chest but rather closed about 5". Hard to explain.

Sorry Andy. I recently left a pretty good site because of the constant bickering that went on, especially between the traditional and compound guys.

Hey ACRecurve, I appreciate that you feel comfortable enough to josh around with me a bit. Just because I currently have the Craze does not mean that I'm rejecting "real bows", or looking down on them as inferior relics of the past.

Just spent a good bit of time yesterday checking out what is available in real bows. A Martin Jaguar caught my eye, and the $$$price$$$ does not require me to sell off a thousand acres to afford it. Talked with my buddy Ralph about it last night and he was also interested.

Most of the real bows sure are $$$$$pricy$$$$$. When you shoot the reallllly $$$$$pricy$$$$$ Bows, are you supposed to draw them back with your little-pinkey stuck out and your Nose HIGH in the air?

What do you think about the Martin Jaguar? Is a Take-Down a real bow?
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Hey Shof, I certainly appreciate the great Defense. I am a Born-again-Rookie Bowyer, and welcome your support. I don't even mind "constructive"(What in the WORLD are you Thinking????) comments about the Bows, Arrows, Targets, etc., because I feel sure I'll ask some off-the-wall questions. Thanks!
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Thanks Ted. Actually I do understand your description of how you are holding. I saw something over on Archery Talk where they said to measure finger tip to finger tip(longest fingers) and divide by 2.5 to get an approximate Draw Length. I was between 29" and 30" doing that. The Craze has an adjustable Draw Length and when set on 30", if I do not use a Loop, I can pull it back until the Cams totally stop rotating. Is that what they call "reaching the Wall"? Anyway, whatever it is, " I " can not pull it past that point. Same-E-Same with the 2" Loop and the DL set for a 28" Draw.

quote:

Originally posted by Shof:
Sorry Andy. I recently left a pretty good site because of the constant bickering that went on, especially between the traditional and compound guys.

Hey, no worries, Shof. I don't like that constant bickering, either...whether it's wheelie vs trad, inline muzzle loaders w/scopes vs old style, or fat, slow bullet vs small & speedy!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey ACRecurve, I appreciate that you feel comfortable enough to josh around with me a bit. Just because I currently have the Craze does not mean that I'm rejecting "real bows", or looking down on them as inferior relics of the past.

Just spent a good bit of time yesterday checking out what is available in real bows. A Martin Jaguar caught my eye, and the $$$price$$$ does not require me to sell off a thousand acres to afford it. Talked with my buddy Ralph about it last night and he was also interested.

Most of the real bows sure are $$$$$pricy$$$$$. When you shoot the reallllly $$$$$pricy$$$$$ Bows, are you supposed to draw them back with your little-pinkey stuck out and your Nose HIGH in the air?

What do you think about the Martin Jaguar? Is a Take-Down a real bow?

Martin bows are very highly thought of in the trad community. I haven't had the opportunity to test drive a Jaguar, but if you want to register on the link below and ask about them, I'm sure the gang over there will have some folks who know about them first-hand. Some traditional purists don't consider a take-down bow to be trad, but they are fewer than those who like them. I have both one-piece and take-down bows. The TD's are much easier to travel with. My Martin is a one-piece Hunter, and it is actually a few fps faster with the same arrows than a $1900 custom bow of the same weight. I doubt you'll find any complaints on the Jaguars.

www.tradgang.com

Hey HC,

We have a real Archery Shoppe here. Check with your shop. They should have a bow and arrow set up that will measure your true draw length. The "arrow" has ruler marks on it the entire length. When you draw it a few times with your bow tech observing, he will note your comfortable draw length.

No loop.

I think they're fine for target shooting but I attach directly to the string with my release under a rubber eliminator that is between the nock and the release.

Less to go wrong at the wrong time. The less "thingys" on your string such as kisser buttons, peeps with rubber tubing, string loops, etc. the more velocity your bow will produce.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Hey HC,

No loop.

I think they're fine for target shooting but I attach directly to the string with my release under a rubber eliminator that is between the nock and the release.

Less to go wrong at the wrong time. The less "thingys" on your string such as kisser buttons, peeps with rubber tubing, string loops, etc. the more velocity your bow will produce.

I agree with your keeping stuff off the string. I have a peep that doesn't require a rubber tube and I attach my release directly below the nock just as you do. I find that if an animal does catch me unaware, I can easily connect my release to the string without having to take my eyes off the target. I can't do that with a loop.

Shooting without a loop,(from the string) is great for bows with a bit longer axle to axle length but with many of the new short axle to axle bows the string pinch just does not allow that as an option.I still have a couple bows set to shoot off the string as I prefer it that way.However my newest bow has a loop.

Bow efficiency goes up with your bow set up at the longest draw length.It is as you stated, a product of the bow having a longer period of time to transfer energy to the arrow due to the longer power stroke.

I would suggest the shortest loop you can deal with if you want to maximize performance.

Thanks. It looks like there are many ways of skinning the cat that works to each persons advantage. That in itself is good to know.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
:Is a Take-Down a real bow?

See my last post in the thread, 'Recurve vs Longbow.'

Hey HC!

I'm really stunned that you even bother to post all of these threads looking for information for "all things archery"

You know damn well that we have a resident archery expert that you could just PM for the definitive answers. It would help to filter out all of the bad information you may get.

Heck, he can even tell you how to properly string a recurve!

Hey R, He had not even crossed my mind.

Thanks, I needed that.
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Hey Andy, Man-O-Man, what a fine looking Bow. If it shoots as good as it looks, it will really be something. Is it impolite to ask - "How much???"


I tried to Sign-In at the Trad Guys site - "tried" - being the optimal word. Couldn't come up with an appropriate Handle that is not already in use. However, I'll get there eventually.

There is a thread over there concerning Disabled Vets(may be on page 2 by now). Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you would copy this link over to the guy who started that thread - http://fw.ky.gov Then tell the guy to click on the "Kentucky Afield" button at the top of the page. Once he does that it tells how to contact them and he should get in touch with Tim Farmer. Tim lost the use of his right hand in a motorcycle accident many years ago and until this year has been pulling a 70# Bow(compound) with his teeth. He just went to a 50# bow this year. I would think Tim has a lot of Tricks to share with them.

Don't want to get you "Banned" from the Trad Guys Board by mentioning "Compound" though. They do seem to be quite interested in a bunch of Rules, which is fine by me since I'm always so amiable.
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Oh yes, I appreciate you all letting "pricy" slide instead of hammering on my spellin'. Just noticed it should(perhaps) be "pricey". Maybe I could Sign-In as $$$$$Pricy$$$$$, since I doubt anyone is using it.

Correct me if i'm wrong but don't that bow have a 19 or 20-30 inch draw length? I think those cam modules are adjustable in .5" increments instead of the standard 1". I shoot a 30" draw without loop, but i shoot a 29 and use a 1" tie on loop. I don't like the metal or plastic loop at all. the tie on loop will not slip if tied properly. In short whatever feels right and gives you the most confidence. A bow is like a fine shotgun, if it don't fit, you'll shoot like s^*#.

quote:

Originally posted by icemanls2:
Correct me if i'm wrong but don't that bow have a 19 or 20-30 inch draw length? I think those cam modules are adjustable in .5" increments instead of the standard 1". ...

If you are refering to the "Craze", you are correct that it has an adjustable DL of 19"<->30". But the adjustments are in 1" increments, which can be made without the need of a Bow Press.

The "Menace" DL is adjustable from 17"<->30".

D - loop doesnt affect the draw length ITO anchor point for your string, your string still anchors in the same place, your release hand will just move back a 1/2" and unless that doesnt work for you then thats not an issue. Going down to 29" to accomodate the d-loop might ruin your string anchor point and make your DL too short.

FWIW the Craze is only 38" ata and at 30" DL forms quite an accute angle at the knock point.

I shoot a Craze at 30", perfect fit and anchor points.

To short of a draw is 10X better than to long