Well tonight I took a 2 blade broadhead and sharpened it to a chisel point instead of the typical needle sharp point. Then I did an informal penetration test against an identical factory sharpened head--the chisel point penetrated equally or more on every shot (30+) I then shot at some 3/4 plywood the chisel point came out unharmed but not the other one. Any comments???? I think I'm gonna do this with a few broadheads for this year.

the chef

chef,

I like the chisel points, and put them on all my two-blade broadheads. About half the models come with some sort of one from the factory.

How much is the question. 1/8"?

I've usually ended up with a chisel point of sorts after a few sharpenings. I used to use a Scotch Wheel which polished the edge and now I use a course stone to get a ragged edge which I think may cause better bleeding...at least it does on my fingers.

I just checked about 30 arrows from last year and almost all have a flat point of at least an 1/8" wide, but certainly will still kill just fine. I shoot a "Block" and I don't sharpen the broadheads since it seems to stop them quicker....thereby less effort required to remove.

The three arrows I used to kill deer last year all had a flat ragged point about an 1/8" wide or greater. One was the width of a pencil, probably close to a 1/4". All were complete pass thru shots and quick kills. I guess I'm shooting at least an 1/8" chisel on all and never a sharp point.

I'm certainly no expert here but I'd say the flat on this arrow was about 3/32 wide.

the chef

I personally like to have a smooth edge, as I've seen a rough "filed edge" load up with hair and sinew -- which I feared would limit penetration. Of course I pulled that arrow out of a tree 10 yards past the deer it killed!

The chisel point works better on hard targets like plywood, but will not work as well against a soft target. It will pentrate further than a normal point if it hits bone.

The tip of a very sharp arrow deforms (slightly)as it goes through the plywood. This takes energy away from the arrow leaving less for pentration. Archers using English longbows used a thin chisel tip broadhead called a Bodkin to penetrate plate and mail armor. They used a wider sharply pointed tip against unarmored enemies.

Elkhunter,

Ok...I got it, I think.

Chisel pt against armored deer and sharp point against unarmored deer unless they are behind plywood.

I had to be a wise ass...sorry!!

It's interesting that the longbow men found the use of different point designs to be effective against different targets. Do you know if they brought both types of arrows to the battle and used whichever was appropriate or were they given the intelligence in advance to know what the ememy was wearing and therefore what arrows to shoot?

Interesting question lowrider. I'm under the impression that arrows changed as the armor of the day changed. Although the lords had the latest stuff while the lower men had the cast offs from last year. I wonder if they had any plywood to wear??

the chef

As plate armor became more common they started carrying a combination of points. Plate was very expensive, so there were always a few lightly armored peasant bowmen or infantry to shoot at with standard broadheads.

Most broadheads today split the difference. A lot of them have a sharply pointed chisel tip in case you need to split a rib. I haven't shot enough deer with a bow to comment on which would penetrate better, but the chisel tip heads with replaceable blades seem to be more popular. Mainly because they are more convenient. I started shooting them because I could never get a sharp enough edge on my cutting tip broadheads.

Elkhunter,

I agree it is a little difficult to get a good edge on broadheads. I used replacable blades for a bunch of years and they always seemed to break one or both sides going thru the deer. I never could get into those "swing blade things". I talked to a couple old bow hunters and they said to use the cheap Bear 2 blade without the bleeder blades. They are tough and always penetrate well. They were right. I use a course stone to sharpen the broadhead blades which leaves a ragged edge and I haven't broken any and they always provide complete pass thru shots and kill quick. You wouldn't want to try to shave with them, but they sure cut thru deer meat and ribs.

There are a lot of other good heavy weight 2 blade cut on contact broadheads and they work well too I suppose, but I bought 30 of the Bear 2 blades for a buck apiece at K-Mart a few years back at a close out sale. You can afford to break a few at that price!!

Deer really aren't a good test for penetration, if you can't shoot an arrow all the way through your average whitetail, you need to take a good look at your equipment. When I started shooting things like 2200# water buffalo, penetration became VERY important. It is a rare arrow that goes all the way through them. I believe in using the biggest head that I am reasonably sure will give complete penetration on whatever species I am hunting at the time. One thing is sure it needs to be tough, because once a point starts to curl, penetration is over. I want the tip to be sharp, but not a needle point. Grizzly heads come with a very blunt tip, I regrind that to end up with same profile, but with a cutting edge that meets at the tip, it won't curl, but cuts on contact. Any of the other heads that come with a needle point I modify to a shorter steeper angle on the tip.

Hmmmmmm....never shot a water buff with an arrow, but I did see one stumble into a Claymore.....boy was he pissed!!!

I'mo expert, but I will throw in someone elses test results if it will help. In an older article I was reading about broad head selection the choice between tips came into play. the auther tested a "bullet" shaped tip, a chisle tip and cut on contact blades. He rigged up a weight scale to a piece of arrow shaft and installed one of each type broadhead tip and tested them on the shoulder of a dead wild boar. I don't have the article right handy but I do remember the numbers.

The "bullet point required 45lbs. to penitrate the hide. The chisle point only 32lbs. Then he used the cut on contact broadhead and it only required 2-4lbs.

Not the gospel but it may help you out.

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
Well tonight I took a 2 blade broadhead and sharpened it to a chisel point instead of the typical needle sharp point. Then I did an informal penetration test against an identical factory sharpened head--the chisel point penetrated equally or more on every shot (30+) I then shot at some 3/4 plywood the chisel point came out unharmed but not the other one. Any comments???? I think I'm gonna do this with a few broadheads for this year.

the chef

Try this instead: Make a frame up about 2'x2' and stretch some leather across it. But, don't stretch it tight, leave it loose enough to sage a little.

Shoot your broad heads fron 10 yards PAST your personal comfort range.

NB I've seen that done with broadheads and the ones I used last year went through leather with hardly any pressure at all. They were needle pointed and incredibly sharp--scary sharp actually. After retrieving one that bounded off a deer's shoulder I noticed the end was curled up, I think that might not happen with a chisel tip. Once the point has been badly deformed I think that's the end of penetration.

the chef

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
NB I've seen that done with broadheads and the ones I used last year went through leather with hardly any pressure at all. They were needle pointed and incredibly sharp--scary sharp actually. After retrieving one that bounded off a deer's shoulder I noticed the end was curled up, I think that might not happen with a chisel tip. Once the point has been badly deformed I think that's the end of penetration.

the chef

The true test is NOT having the leather tight.

Don't be too hard on pointed broadheads that don't slice through bone...cut on impact heads aren't designed to do that. They are designed to slip past the ribs.

Chisel points are designed to bust bone.