I was just watching Spirit of te Wild and Ted took a Whitetail buck from a treestand using a bow.

My question is on Teds bow he had what looked like a handgun scope on it. It was a 6-8" black tube.

Anyone know what this was? Possibly a red dot scope? I wasn't aware that there were scopes available like this for a bow.

Can you guys tell me more about it?

I am just about to buy a compound bow (Mathews) which will be my first bow and am just trying to decide on what sighting product I am going to get so any and all info would be great.

The Nuge could be using most anything...long live the beast!!

Regarding your first bow, if you can find a good archery shop wherre they will let you try different types of bows and sights and get some advice from experienced archers it would be a great help. For starters, I would suggest you consider just one pin at first while you are learning. How you are going to shoot (ground/tree stand) aslo has a lot to do with equipment selection and don't over power yourself...40 - 50lb is great to start.

GOOD LUCK!!

I have been looking pretty hard at the Switchbacks. What do you guys think of the XT versus the standard? I was thinking about the 60-70 limbs with it set at 60 initially. Do you think this would be too high for a first bow?

I don't know what would be right for you, but I think it is better to get the form correct with a light pull (40-50 lb) bow and learn to shoot really well, then move up into a heavy draw bow if you need it. I have shot elk and deer with a 55 lb set to around 52 - 53 lbs and have always gotten complete pass thru and dead animals. I just started to shoot a recurve again after a 20 year break and I bought a 40# which will sink carbon arrows with 175 gr field points 12 - 15" into my "block" and thru 3/4" OSB which I'm sure will pass thru a deer at 25 yds.

I'm sure someone will disagree, but it's the shot you make not so much the bow you use to make the shot.

lowrider, no one will disagree with you on that one!!!!

the chef

guy goes by the handle of buckfever has both a switchback and XT and has posted extensively about them on this site.

http://eastcoasthunter.proboards21.com/index.cgi

I wouldn't try a scope until you've mastered the pins ... but I wouldn't use a scope on a bow anyway.

You guys are probably right about the light pull to begin with... Afterall I caould just buy heavier limbs when I want to increase pull right?

Also thanks for the advice on the bow scope... Will stick with pins.

Ted used a Pollington Pro Sight from CP Oneida Eagle Bows. He and Claude Pollington, the owner of Oneida and the Buckpole Deer Ranch have been friends for years. Ted shot for Oneida back in the 80's and is now shooting Oneida as well as two other companies. The advantage of the Red Dot is that it eliminates the need for a peep site, forces your form to be correct, and works great in low light. You can learn more about the site at www.Oneidaeaglebows.com, or PM me. Id be glad to help. Ive been shooting a red dot since '91 exclusively.

Hugh

Bulldog,

I bought a reddot scope year before last and got to hunt with it one time before the season went out. It was cold and raining so I was wearing a fairly bulky raincoat, so when I shot, I didn't hold the bow exactly as I normally do....trying to keep the string from hitting my coat. At less that 20 yards, the arrow missed the deer so far that it turned around walked back and smelled it. The second shot did the same. The deer giggled and walked off.

The next day I picked up and drew my bow. I could move the red dot all over the place with my bow hand simply by changing my grip ever so slightly. I gave it to my dad and he can shoot targets with it OK, but would not recommend it for hunting either.

Do this test before you buy: Draw a bow with a scope on it and then make some slight adjustments with your bow hand and just see for yourself how much the aim point moves.

Steve,

Im pretty sure you torqued the bow and that caused the miss. By bulking up on your clothes it caused you to change your form. The bow hand should let the bow float in the hand and not grip it. Grip causes torque, torque causes left and right misses.

I don't think the site had anything to do with the miss, peeps and pins would have done the same thing.

When we sell our system we address the torque issue in the video that comes with the site. And when I set someone up with a site at a show, I have them come to full draw, and anchor. I then torque the bow for them showing how the dot will disappear with even a slight torque. This forces them to shoot with and open hand and improve thier form.

The other benefit to a red dot over peeps and pins has to do with your eyes. Your eye can only focus on one thing. With peeps and pins your eye bounces between the peep, the pin and the target. When you try to focus on one of the three things, the other two get blurry. A red dot is shot with both eyes open. Your dominate eye looks through the site and your weak eye looks directly at the target. It "appears" that the dot is actually projected on the target and allows you to focus on just one thing.

The unfortunate thing about red dots is while there are alot of them out there, there aren't alot of people that know how to set them up. The archer gets frustrated and goes back to pins. That's why we included the video.

Hope this helps.

Hugh

Hugh,

I know I torqued the bow. I had to or hit my sleeve. I was hunting.....not standing straight up and shooting at a target wearing my polo shirt. Sometimes form must be changed a bit during hunting situations....and it only takes a bit to make the red dot point way off of target (3-4 feet at 15 yards in my case ) I've killed deer under the exact conditions with a pin/peep setup several times. The bow-scope concept is simply flawed. That's why you don't see more.

Do you really tell your customers that they must hold the bow with exact form or all bets are off? ....that they can't shoot if they are leaning, sitting, wearing gloves, which gloves, and at only certain degrees from horizontal? ....that they should really let that big one go and wait until the proper form can be used?

Another thing while I'm at it: The scope blocks your view terribly. On a long gun, it's up close to your eye and the field of view is big, but on a bow, it's hard to see the animal because the field of view is about the size of the ribcage with zero power magnification.

A single lighted sight pin and a large peep has got the reddot beat all to hell.


Sincerely,
Steve Morgan

To everybody else out there.... I'm trying to save you some money, and more importantly, that trophy. I've tried the scope and it doesn't apply to bow's. Hugh, on the other hand, is selling them. Good hunting.

Steve,

No need to turn this personal, but hey, Ive got thick skin. And yes I AM saying your form needs to be correct for each shot, whether its peeps and pins, red dots or bare bow. It doesn't matter whether you wear gloves, shoot from a treestand, or stand on your head, the hand position, anchor point and draw length should be the same to hit the same point of aim. Thats not me trying to sell a scope, that's archery 101. I don't sell them, Im not a dealer. I know the owner of the company and volunteer my time to help people shoot better, Im not compensated at all.

But I will agree with you that the field of view is small if you shoot with only one eye. That's why you need to shoot with both eyes open to make the system work. Your then able to advantage of your binocular vision. You will be focused only on the deer. The bow will disappear, the scope will disappear and you will only see the dot on the deer.

Im not trying to start a pissing match, but after shooting these things since 91 Im pretty well versed in the system. I gave up peeps and pins years before I ever started volunteering for the company. Im sorry you had a bad experience, but it doesnt sound like you had any instruction.

PM me if youd like and we can sort this out.

Hugh

the sights you guys are debating don't fit within the parameters of fair chase in my book.

Hugh,

My bad. I thought you sold them due to your Pro Staff stuff at the bottom of your post. I retract that comment.

Seems like we are saying the same thing about the perfect form. It has to be perfect with the scope. You said it, then I said it, then you said it again. So, it must be true.

Success in deer hunting, as with anything else, is an exercise in eliminating problems/mistakes which a person is often not aware of until it is the moment of truth.

My time with the red dot bow scope proved to me that there was a problem in the application of that type of scope on a bow. The other types of scopes used by archers are dots on glass and are not paralax compensating like rifle scopes and must use something as the rear sight (peep sight). If the reddot or any other rifle type scope worked well, it would have replaced with the "dot-on-glass with peep sight" scopes years ago.

The original poster asked about the scope. You told your side, and I told mine. I'm trying to let the original poster learn from my mistake. I thought you were selling them, but was wrong and I do apologize. I think at this point we can just agree to disagree.



Sincerely,
Steve Morgan

KY State Jr. Champ 1975-1978
National Field Archery Assoc. Jr. Champ 1978
KY Men's AA class Indoor Champ 1978 (HOA 600)
4th Men's AA class NFAA SE Sectionals 1979
KY State 5-pin Champ 1979 (new class)

Hugh,

So you think that the red dot sight would be good for me (a total beginner)? This would be a hunting bow.

Also what's the deal with Oneida bows? Are they finger release only? Kind of like a recurve compound cross?

Bulldog,

In my opinion, the red dot system is easier to learn that peeps and pins. If you are a beginning archer, it really simplifies the shot process.

That being said however, they can be pricey. The ones that I use cost nearly $300.00 which is much more than any pin system. So if your just playing with archery, youd do better trying something less expensive. But if your in it for the long haul, I think the Pollington Pro-Site is the way to go.

The design of the Oneida bow goes way back to the mid 80's and does sort of look like a cross between a recurve and a compound. They can be shot with fingers or a release. They work well with fingers as the hinged limb reduces finger pinch even with a ATA length of 44".

I shoot all mine with a release(and Ive got a dozen of them). The Oneida is easier to draw than a comparable cam bow because the limbs "hinge" and act like a lever rolling the cam over much easier than you can with your muscles. When I work shows for the company we get the comment that we set the bows too light. I then put them on a bow scale and show them the draw weight and they thought they were drawing 10lbs. less than they were.

Oneida is a small company and dealer support is spotting due to a former owners actions. When Claude bought the company 5 years ago, he redesigned much of the bow, increased the number of models and improved the quality. But the damage done by the former owner to the dealer base hasnt gone away.

We do have a dealer list on the website to check out. I also know a staff shooter in Reno that will let you come shoot his bows( I see your in N. California). I can give you his contact information if youd like.

Hugh

Hi Guys. I own and shoot a Pollington sight. I had shot peep/pins for 20 years prior. This sight is the way to go for anyone. It is better for hunting conditions I think. We all know the different positions we wind up in prior to taking the shot, no matter how you position yourself you know if the dot is in the middle and you are anchoed at your anchor point you will hit your target. As far as fair chase goes I feel it is "legal" , jujst think of the dot as your pin and the lens as your peep. The dot isn't projected on the animal. I did'nt receive the video when I bought the site , How do I get one? One more thing youwill never, and I mean never, deal with a company that services and stands behind it's products more than CP Oneida. Claude and Will and the guys are first rate straight shooters. I wouldn't hesitate buying an Oneida for my first bow, the support you get is worth every penny. Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
Hugh,

So you think that the red dot sight would be good for me (a total beginner)? This would be a hunting bow.

Also what's the deal with Oneida bows? Are they finger release only? Kind of like a recurve compound cross?

I think you'll learn faster with a 45-55# compound with simple "gadgets". The bow you like is fast enough to use a one or two pins to learn with. If you enjoy shjooting you can always buy more 'gadgets" latter.

Compound bows are much like fishing gear...every weekk there's a new gadget to "LURE" you into the pro-shop.

quote:

Originally posted by Hughiam:

The design of the Oneida bow goes way back to the mid 80's

WEll yes, but make that the mid 1580's. The design is based on the Penobscot Indian Bows.





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