Has anyone done any Velocity comparison testing of Recurves vs. Compounds using the same Arrow and Draw Length?

I have never chronograph ed a re-curve but I have chrono'd my compounds and Xbow
What you will find whatever the compound bow manufacturer publishes about it's speed is a lot of unattainable hogwash unless your shooting toothpicks
My compounds would shoot in the low 200 FPS when the published speed was in the low 300's, mainly because the hunting arrows are much heavier than their test arrows.


Now Xbows are a different case, the manufactures state a minimum bolt weight which is near if not identical to what you would hunt with. My 10 point Xbow is published to shoot in the low 300's and that is approximately what I get

I would think a recurve would be rather slow since I have 2 older compounds and they shoot in the mid to upper 100 Fps range

Now don't let the reduced speed discourage you since the the heavier hunting areas of recurve/componds have a longer killing range since of the heavier arrows and the corresponding retained energy

It's a good question.

To rephrase it a bit- If you took a compound shooting say 275 fps and put the 650 grain arrow in it that I shoot with my longbow or recurve what would the new speed be? I'd guess that it would drop by aobut 50 fps, and a totally unqualified guess it would be!

The results wouldn't be directly proportional because I shoot a weaker spine (500's instead of 300's) and lower poundage (55lbs) than most compounds. So the coumpound would lose some effeciency by shooting my weaker spined arrow.

I do know a guy who shoots a 70 lb black widow and with arrows that are about 10 gpp he's getting 230 fps (if I remember correctly).

I think a lot of the speed achieved by compounds isn't because of vastly better effeciency but because of perfect tuning and the ability to shoot light arrows without damaging the bow.

All that rambling and it still doesn't answer the question. I'll head over to tradgang and ask there...I'll report back in a day or two.

Now from memory My Browning Illusion which is a 2006 or 2007 compound was avertised at 320FPS, shooting 29 3/4 2117 with 3 flech 4" feather and a 125 pt grain arrow I was getting in the area of 230FPS I believe the arrow combo was around 600grains
My Browning Drake Flightmaster which was a fast bow for its time (1981) shoots this same set up in the 175FPS
My Browning Explorer II which again was a fast bow when it came out Mid 70's is in the arae of 150FPS

All these bows where 65 pound shot at about 10 feet throught a pro chono chronograph

Well they already pulled my post on Tradgang...apparently they don't want a compound vs recurve debate....I hate censorship!

I've wondered this myself in the past but I never worried too much about it. Now that the question has come up here it's starting to eat on me.
I have always thought that you won't lose much in velocity with the recurve. The problem is this is a hard test to perform due to the spine issues between a compound and recurve of the same draw weight.

I shoot a gold tip traditional 7595 from my 70 pound recurve. From my 70 pound compound I shoot a carbon express 6075.

I guess the simplest thing to do would be to shoot the recurve with it's heavy spine over the cronograph then just use the same arrow ( even though it's too stiff) from the compound and compare velocitys.

I imagine it would be too much too ask of my chrony to give me accurate readings at those speeds.

The problem with using different splines the bow will shoot different, once you get a normal bow whether its a re curve, long or compound tuned, why would you change splines? assuming you are using the same weight tip

I was thinking of using the exact same Arrow for the Test. I realize one Bow will shoot a specific Arrow better than the other Bow, just curious how the different kinds of Bows transfer their Energy into the Arrow.

From an Engineering point of view, the Compound appears to work similar to Slower Powders in rifles and Recurves tend to work similar to Faster Powders in rifles. By that I mean the Pressure Builds with a longer time frame on a compound,where the Pressure is Reducing over the same time period on a recurve. Thus, the compound should be more efficient Energy wise.
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Hey CalgaryChef, I hope the question didn't get you BANNED from that site. I tried to Log On there a few weeks ago, had a bit of an Emergency during the process and had to Stop. When I got back to it, then it would not allow me to Log On because their computer was sure I'd tried to do it before - which I had. A Trad Board which is too complicated to Log On.

Yea well I almost got banned on another site for suggesting that making moonshine is illegal in Canada. Tried to do the owners and posters a favour so they wouldn't got to jail and they slapped my little fingers with the ban stick.

Back in the olden days, we shot normal sized hunting arrows out of compounds, mostly aluminum, but I know of wood and fiberglass shafts shot out of them too. You can easily do a comparison, you just have to shoot a well tuned arrow from the recurve and then using an adjustable rest, tune the compound to the same arrow. I'm sure there are compound experts that will say it won't work, but its because they never tried it. I've guided lots of buffalo hunters through tuning their compounds into shooting 800,900 and even 1000 grain duplex shafted arrows. The compound will still be faster, but not a LOT faster. As was said earlier, the main advantage of the compound is that it starts out slow and excellerates, which allows a much lighter spine and mass weight shaft, whereas the recurve starts out at max thrust and therefor requires a heavier spine and mass weight arrow to avoid a near dry fire condition. The thing is, on really BIG game that require the penetration of really heavy arrows,there is very little speed advantage in the compound.

Why ask HC?

You know that chronos are worthless "thingys"

I was wondering if anyone would catch me.

I'll admit I DO NOT normally have any use at all for a Chronograph, because it misleads a lot of Reloaders. Seemed like it was an easier question than - "If you have a Recurve/LongBow and a Compound shooting the exact same arrow, if they are all sighted in for 20yds, which shoots that same Arrow the lowest at 60yds and how much farther did it drop?"
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Here is what brought the question up to start with. I spotted this on the BackwaterBowfishing Board by Matt33, " i put my chronograph to work earlier with a 45# recurve and a discovery set at 24# and every shot was within 3-4 fps of each other the speeds ranged from 104 to 110fps ". I'm pretty sure Matt33 was using some kind of Fiberglass Fishing Arrow for his comparison.

I recently shot my Mathews compound fully rigged for hunting, draw weight set @ 60 lbs through a chrony & got around 260 FPS. Years ago, my recurves used to shoot around 175 on a good day, but the setups, arrow weights, etc. were not the same. Today, I doubt if I could comfortably shoot a recurve with the same weight (60 lbs) that I shoot with my compound.

eliscomin, can you tell us what the total arrow weight is on your set up?

thanks

Carbon Impact Fat Shaft XLT 6000 - 29" shaft, 31" total length with 125 grain NAP Spitfire expandable head. Total weight 296 grains. Velocity was measured about 3 feet from the bow.
I thought velocity would be higher, but penetration & trajectory seem to be similar to my old PSE that I shot at 70 Lbs. It was set up 10 pounds higher than the Mathews for a trip to Africa, but I never measured it with a chronograph.

I'm not trying to stir the pot or piss anyone off, I'm just interested in this stuff and I really don't want to start a compound/vs recurve war.

I wonder what your speed would have dropped to with say a 600 grain arrow? Did you hunt any "big stuff" or thick skinned game with the 296 gr.arrows? I'd be interested to hear about the penetration you got.

I see quite a few videos where the arrow gets only minimum penetration on even the small stuff like deer. I remember one in particular where there was about 5" of penetration on an otherwise good shot. I'm pretty sure it was with expandable heads and the shot was at quite a steep quartering angle and it obviousley cartwheeled the arrow reducing the penetration.

Using my 650 gr. arrows and shot from a 53 pound adcock design longbow at a blistering 165 fps I can penetrate through 3/4 inch plywood with a 3 blade broadhead.

[QUOTE] I wonder what your speed would have dropped to with say a 600 grain arrow? Did you hunt any "big stuff" or thick skinned game with the 296 gr.arrows? I'd be interested to hear about the penetration you got.

I see quite a few videos where the arrow gets only minimum penetration on even the small stuff like deer. I remember one in particular where there was about 5" of penetration on an otherwise good shot. I'm pretty sure it was with expandable heads and the shot was at quite a steep quartering angle and it obviousley cartwheeled the arrow reducing the penetration.
[QUOTE]
On my African hunt, I killed a Kudu, Gemsbok (Oryx), two Impala, a blesbuck, & a warthog. All mature animals and all complete pass throughs. I used cut on impact heads there (Steeelforce). And a different brand of carbon shaft, but the weight was approximately the same.
I have, however used expandable heads (NAP spitfires) on several dozen Tenn. whitetails over the last 10-15 years with devastating results. Holes are larger & blood trails are better than with fixed blade heads, and penetration has not been a problem. I remember one in particular that was quartering sharply away, & the hit was a tad far back. The arrow penetrated the side of the left ham & drove forward through the deer lengthwise stopping against the anterior chest wall on the opposite side. the head did not "cartwheel" despite the sharp entry angle. To be honest, that is the only sharply angling shot I have taken with these heads. All the others were pretty much straight on or slightly angled shots at reasonably close range (30 yards or less). I don't like to take questionable shots.
Our whitetails down here tend to be on the small side compared to the Canadian version, but in my limited experience, the expandable heads dispatch them quickly & cleanly.

Don't know how this relates to your long bow but here are some nos. for my Bowtech Tribute set at approx. 60#
Easton Axis 400, 26", 100 gr. target point, total weight 394.2 gr.,standard cam, 253.8 fps.
Same as above with speed cam, 258.6 fps.
Easton acc 3-39-440, 27.125", 100 gr. target point, total weight 385 gr.,std cam, 257.0 fps.
This help?
C.G.B.

quote:

Originally posted by cgbach:
...This help? ...

Yes, all the Data helps. Thank you.
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Hey Eliscomin, The NAP Spitfire you mentioned. Is there a particular reason you are using them rather than some of the other Brands/Styles? Aren't they the ones which do not have the Rubber O-Ring?

Here's some data for ya,

Here's what happens when you miss a target in your backyard while shooting a compound with an arrow that has a velocity of 275 fps, with a 420 grain arrow at 20 yards. KE of 95.60

Montec G-5 broadhead versus cinderblock wall






I hadn't had this bow out in years. I had a buddy who wanted to borrow it, so I took it out back to sight it in. It wasn't. First shot out of the bow.

quote:

Hey Eliscomin, The NAP Spitfire you mentioned. Is there a particular reason you are using them rather than some of the other Brands/Styles? Aren't they the ones which do not have the Rubber O-Ring?

quote:

Hot Core - The NAP spitfire, like several other expanding heads, does not have "o" rings. I began using them when I first tried expandables 15 or so years ago because I had good results for a number of years before that with NAP's fixed blade Thunderheads. They flew true and held together well on shots into both targets and deer.
Since I liked the company and their products, my first expandables were the Spitfires. They have worked so well for me that I have not seen a need to change. NAP is still making them (in several versions) so I guess there are others who have continued to use them as well.
RC - impressive performance on the cinder block.

Thanks Eliscomin. The NAP folks sure treated me right about my Arrow Rest. Excellent Customer Service makes loyal customers.
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Hey R, I'll try to remember G5s for Cinder Block walls.

There is a flick somewhere on You Tube where a guy is shooting different kinds of Broadheads into a 55gal drum. Pretty tough Test, but a few did better than I expected they would.

One thing I have noticed about very big/dangerous game animals, they aren't very good at math and they aren't very impressed by numbers. I also noticed that some of the big name hunters/promoters very quietly use traditional two blade heads, like Zwickey,Grizzly and Magnus when they go to Africa or elsewhere for really big game. A couple years ago a "factory team" from one of the expandible manufacturers was making a lot of noise about going to Africa and showing everyone what their mechanical heads would do on cape buffalo, never heard another word about it afterword. I had a young PH nagging me and nearly forcing me to shoot a blue wildebeest a few years ago. I had NO interest in shooting one and I finally asked him WHY, he said, he had FOUR compound shooters, using arrows in the 400 grain range, previously shoot blue wildebeest and NONE of them were recovered, he finally pushed me into shooting one, 27 yards broadside, at the shot he said,"don't worry, we MIGHT find it", however I saw the arrow pentrate to the nock, the bull ran maybe 150 yards and dropped dead at a full run. The PH said the 400 grain arrows had hit in the same place, but only got a couple inches of penetration, I was using 700 grain arrows with 160 Magnus heads. I have experience with many, MANY arrows shot into very big game animals and heres what works, heavy, small diameter, well flying arrows with cut on contact two blade heads. K.E. and fps are the ballistic equivellent of "mines bigger" and good mainly for impressing your buddies and nothing to do with penetration or effectivness for hunting.

loboga
I tend to agree although without as much expireance as you but I would add even more important would be proper arrow tuneing. What I mean is that an arrow flying perfectly straight will penatrate better than one with a bad spine or broadhead of improper weight.
Whats your imput on that?

Akshooter, absolutely, any movement the arrow makes that isn't straight down range is wasted energy AND an arrow that isn't flying perfectly straight when it hits the target isn't going to penetrate as well.